"Refining"

[Jaff.]

Over the last few days I've been sorting out a c class Mercedes in black.

using a megs g220 v2 and an orange hex logic pad with megs #85 I managed to get the majority of the deep marks out, leaving only light swirling marks (I guess from the heavy compound)

where do I go next? Before I used to use megs #80 on a black lake country pad and whilst that gave me better correction again there still seemed to be really small marks on the paint.so I guessed that the #80 was still too coarse for refining as you say.

i don't know which product to go for really to get that proper finish everyone else seems to get.

to finish the merc yesterday I used meguires ultimate polish on a black hexlogic pad which made a bit of difference and it looked really good when finished but not up to standards.

Am I missing a stage I between or just using the wrong products?

Bit of help please?

i did manage this on the merc though, so it's quite a difference no matter what and the owner will be pleased I'm sure, I just think I could do better

 

[Cliotoby]

Green lake country CP is a good all round pad and might be a good step after orange hex. I dont think it can cope with what wool will do to your paint - I figured that out yesterday and my paintwork is royally fucked now. Full of pinholes, buffer trails etc. But its got enough cut to remove defects and give a good finish. CP pads are quite small though.

 

[Jaff.]

What causes pinholes?

 

[Cliotoby]

Actually turned out to be sap thank god. Was so gutted.

Bad machine polishing/compounding technique. Pinholes might not be the correct phrase.

 

[yellowbelly]

Do you mean Pigtails?

 

[Jaff.]

No, it's hard to explain. It's like little specs of dirt on the paint even after machining.

but anyway, refining, what am I doing wrong?

​I really need a PDI because I'm scared stiff of breaking through

 

[Cliotoby]

Depth guages are so over rated. I think I broke through an edge yesterday on my car. Not sure tho. On my last car I broke through in about 3 places lol. I was sanding though.

It is right to be concerned about it. Machine polishing alone should not break through - which is an incorrect statement because you could have a patch of thin paint.....every car is different. Plus you dont know what the person before you was doing. See if you can pick one up cheap on DW. IIRC people tend to pass them about, but then sell on and lose a tenner or something.

What do you mean by refining. After the defect removal comes refining. Should be a pad with some cut (but minimal - not a glaze pad etc) and a light polish. Work it properly and it will produce a good finish.

 

[Jaff.]

When I'm working on other people's cars I can't afford to break through. A PDI is the only thing that will give me at least some idea of how deep I can go.

after correcting the boot on this merc I had to leave some scratches in there as I was afraid to go too far.

Anyway.

refining.
on the Bonnet I was able to get rid of all the swirls on a certain section (it took me ages with an orange hex and #85) but in this section there were little spots in the paint. Like I said, only way to describe it is dust on top of the paint. It's been on a few cars I've done now and it leaves me disappointed with the finish.

Can sort of see them next to the light in this picture

also even after getting the best I can with the #85, using the ultimate polish on the black it doesn't get rid of the "marring" (tiny little scratches left by the #85) which is why I'm asking what I've done wrong

 

[Cliotoby]

You sure its not just stone chips?

Sap?

Did you Ironx and clar and de tar?

Only time you get marks like that which are genuenly defects is when you hammer the paintwork with a polisher. Takes blatant disregard and impatience to do it. Like me.

Cracking work IMO btw... they cant expect more than that.

 

[Jaff.]

I'm not sure no, but they seem too small to be stonechips. Although thinking about it, I've only ever noticed it on the bonnet so it's a plausible explanation.

i had run out of iron x and I forgot my tardis so no I didn't, it was clayed though.

saying that has made me paranoid now that im going too aggressive wither the da. I really find it hard to get a good level of correction without spending ages on one panel, so if I'm spending ages on a panel am I making it worse?

also would ultimate polish on a black hex logic correct any marks left by #85 on an orange hex logic pad? Or do I need a step inbetween?

thanks, I was well happy with the bootlid

 

[Cliotoby]

I dont think you can even get pinholes with a da tbh. I would say stonechips or contamination. I had similar marks today but turned out to be tree sap. Detailing spray removed most of it.

You can spend as long as you want on panels its just the heat and technique you need to sort. Da should be fine. Rotary takes a bit more skill.

 

[Jaff.]

Next time I come across it ill try to picture it in more detail. I'm no photographer unfortunately.

might start on the Megane soon, see how bad that has gone

 

[Detail Chris]

Jaff theirs so much to discuss here, too much tbh.
Im not too familiar with megs polish so I won't comment, however you are probably not working the polish long enough and or have an incorrect technique. #80 is a ligh polish with diminishing abrasives. Do you understand how these work? This shouldn't leaving micro marring that your getting. What pads were you using with the #80?
mcheers
chris

 

[Cliotoby]

Id invest in some Gtechniq P1.

 

[Jaff.]

Hi Chris, I think i used a Black lake country pad with the #80, and it's quite possible I didn't work them long enough. I understand diminishing abrasives yes.

I do struggle with how long to work the product though. After watching numerous videos online I can't see anything different I'm doing. I also don't know when to put more product on, I've no doubt I'm using far too much product on each car

 

[Gally]

Yeah I can't get my head around all of that. If you google refining there are a million good videos showing how.

The fact you're detailing cars without de-tarring etc is a bit dodgy never mind wet sanding with no PDG.

Refining is the least of your worries mate if you're not doing the basics.

 

[Jaff.]

Like I said, I normally do. Got stock of iron x an have tardis in my box again now so shouldn't be a problem again.

i took a risk with the boot lid tbh but it turned out well so I guess I can rest easy now, a PDI is next on the purchase list though.

what am I doing wrong then? Ive read that thread you posted on here 1million times and can't work out what I'm doing different. I'm thinking maybe the speed of the machine? Maybe the time I'm spending on each panel?

​I guess the thread title is a bit misleading but it's part of my problem lol

 

[Gally]

Can you list me your polishes and pads please?

 

[Jaff.]

Currently I have megs #85, #83, #80, megs ultimate polish, srp.

and pads - full hexlogic range, a black lake county and another lake county that I don't use as I'm not 100% on the colour of it tbh

 

[Gally]

You don't really have a proper finishing polish.

 

[Jaff.]

I didn't think I did, took a gamble with the ultimate polish tbh. Really like using that stuff though.

​what would you recommend?

 

[Gally]

Ultrafina is the best finishing polish but seems to suit rotary better. I'd be looking at Menzerna finishing polish with a hex pad Blue/Black probably.

 

[Jaff.]

Ok I will look Into it thanks.

this one do the job?

http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/polishing/polish/menzerna-250ml/prod_217.html

Would that leave a defect free finish?

 

[Gally]

Yeah. It's got a tad more bite than 85RD and spreads just like butter. Love 106fa.

 

[Jaff.]

These menzerna products are a lot harder to get to grips with than the others lol. Not as clearly set out as other products.

so for example. If I was to remove swirls with #83 or #85 then finish with this on a black pad it should leave a swirl free finish? Or would it be best to fit another stage inbetween those?

 

[Gally]

Yeah i'm not sure about the megs stuff. I know one is called a swirl remover.

To be fair remove swirls with whatever you want but refining needs finesse. It's needs a finesse product imo. Plenty out there.

 

[Jaff.]

Perhaps I lack finesse then. I need more practice

 

[Jaff.]

Looks like I'm not working the product long enough and in an area that's too big. So will work on that next time

 

[Detail Chris]

Looks like I'm not working the product long enough and in an area that's too big. So will work on that next time

Too big and area, too much polish, not long enough sets and wrong speeds are all things that will do this. You will only learn with practice. Even then all paints are different and you have to adapt to them. As Gally says you need to decomtaminate. if the pad picks up some tar or whatever this will easily inflict the damage your saying. If its teqnique, Like I said earlier, I can't rememberd #80, but The micro marring you have shouldn't be having with a polish like this. Maybe some holograms but that's all. Without seeing it yes a finishing polish may complete the paint. Agreed Ultrafina is great and what I use.

Its easy for me to say as its my job but I would invest in some more modern polishes such as Scholl for example. S17 is amazing as is most of the range. Personally I don't use a da very often but if you look on DW for Scholl and da I'm sure their is plenty of discussions!
cheis

 

[Jaff.]

So you suggest selling my megs range then? I don't want to have them just for it to go to waste.

Which polishes would you recommend for use with a da? As a "complete set" if you will. Ie a few polishes that will sort the majority of paint issues out.


Im convinced now its my technique but I'm keen to learn and get it spot on and appreciate any advice the experts can hand down

scholl is expensive!

 

[Detail Chris]

So you suggest selling my megs range then? I don't want to have them just for it to go to waste.

Which polishes would you recommend for use with a da? As a "complete set" if you will. Ie a few polishes that will sort the majority of paint issues out.


Im convinced now its my technique but I'm keen to learn and get it spot on and appreciate any advice the experts can hand down

I don't use a DA, except for sanding and pain in the ass sticky paint so I'm not the best to ask. Gally will know. I'm sure elsewhere you mentioned about getting a rotary, is this something your still deciding?

 

[Jaff.]

I haven't mentioned getting a rotary, although the added speed of correction is tempting me. I'm fairly careful when it comes to the paint.

PDI is higher on my list of to buys before I get a rotary tbh.

having read gallys thread again (the pictures are back now lol) I realise its my technique that is wrong so maybe I should persist with the megs range.

​I have a seat Leon to do on Friday so ill see if my new approach will yield better results

 

[Detail Chris]

Dude deffo try with what you've got, just keep practicing, and smiling!
​Pdi is a good idea too.

 

[Jaff.]

Well I just ordered some menzerna 85rd just to try along with some other bits and bobs so we will see what I can do on Friday

​will have to wait a few weeks before I can afford a PDI as I've spent far too much this month on car cleaning gear lol

 

[aucky]

The pink AF finishing polish is very good IMO.

 

[Jaff.]

Too late now lol.ill see how I get on with what I've got first before spending more!

i bought revive though. Supposed to be good. Do you know if it will last longer if I put reload over it?

 

[RichCup]

I'd avoid using #85 tbh - it's extremely harsh and in 99.9% of cases unnecessary. It's also not really suitable for use with a DA as they're not really powerful enough to properly break down the abrasives.

Awesome work on that bootlid though! But as the others said, wetsanding with no PTG is crazy!

 

[Jaff.]

I wasn't hugely impressed with #85 anyway tbh. I only bought it just incase I needed something pretty harsh (which I did on the bootlid)

i don't see how it's that crazy, I was reading a thread on DW that said wet sanding actually took less clear coat off than polishing did. It was a calculated risk and it payed off IMO

Doing the whole car would be a bit crazy ill give you that, but this is a section that's no bigger than a microfibre

 

[Jaff.]

Managed this with menzerna polishes yesterday

​much preffered using that polish with hexlogic pads so much easier than the meguires stuff

 

[Cliotoby]

I was going to suggest Megs 205. Perhaps Gtechniq P1?