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You'll probably pay more than you can pick up a 2nd hand 1.2 engine (assuming your going for the same size) as they're about £200 from breakers, minus ancillaries.
If you've found somewhere that's doing this refurbishment - ask them what exactly the work entails?
If you've found somewhere that's doing this refurbishment - ask them what exactly the work entails?
Are you going to be buying one with a high mileage dud engine?
A proper full refurb (strip it to every last nut and bolt acid dip and degrease and rebuild with all new gaskets head skimmed bored or honed depending what it needs new piston rings new main and big end bearings crank grind if needed) your looking at around £1000 mark with a 2 year guarantee thats a very rough price without having any car details
172
inho if you plan on keeping the car a while you'll be better off getting a engine rebuild as then essentially its all new internally, i know that's what il be doing with the cup rather than throwing a 2nd hand lump in with already worn rings etc etc, all depends how much you want 2 spend
Depends what is required in terms of just fixing one that is worn out, and what standard you want it done to, personally I view new rings as only a freshen up to buy a bit more time, a proper rebuild should have new pistons and a rebore, all new lifters etc, and basically would run you into quite a few thousand.
These engines REALLY cope well with miles though, far more than most other engines, so dont do it "just because"
I put new rings in my mrs old daily 172 @ 140K, and TBH they werent really needed even then, it was just cause I had the head off anyway and happened to have a set on the shelf it kind of seemed silly not to do so.
These engines REALLY cope well with miles though, far more than most other engines, so dont do it "just because"
I put new rings in my mrs old daily 172 @ 140K, and TBH they werent really needed even then, it was just cause I had the head off anyway and happened to have a set on the shelf it kind of seemed silly not to do so.
Id say for something I would consider a "new" engine now, you would be looking at 4K spend or so really including labour, as you cant class it as new if its got old valves in it still when they fail so easily, likewise lifters wear out, oil pump, all new bearings, new pistons and a rebore etc. Its a lot of money to spend on a 1K car!
172
il just leave old pistons in mine tbh, but iv spent that much in 3 years including the price of the car its at the stage of i may aswel just keep it going and turn it in 2 a w.end/tracktoy and get the R32 as a daily
By new i also meant newer than a 2nd hand lump with 60k on it
Just bear in mind with that sort of work, that honing the bore increases the tolerance and hence although it improves seal in the short term, in the long term its likely to INCREASE wear rate.
I personally dont like to use a hone and new rings on anything I know I want in tip top condition for more than a few dozen K miles after, I did it on my mrs car to make it have great seal again there and then, but I did so knowing that at 200K it would be in worse condition probably than if I didnt do so.
172
yeah i get what you mean, il just send it back to it's home place... 519 as most members who use Dan think the car lived there due to it being parked outside so often with the close between services etc due to the mileage i was doing at the time lol.. BlackGold who is on here drove it the other day and couldn't believe how well it drove for a 140k + car.
Just get the lump out and see what it needs and then pick it up when Dans done his magic
Just get the lump out and see what it needs and then pick it up when Dans done his magic
Thats a load of rubbish you dont need to spend 4k why rebore an engine if it aint needed thats stupid a proper hone (not flexi hone) and a new set of rings will outlast the car
Also new valves? Seriously if they are straight then you reface the valve grind the seat and its like new there is nothing wrong with reusing pistons snd valves it woukd be stupid replacing if there is nothing wrong with them
Like I said for a recon engine your looking around the £1000 mark depending on what engine you have
Pete's racer has just had a full engine rebuild and now the cam seals leak iirc from his thread. And I seem to remember the burpspeed car having some issue with leaks after a rebuild too. It's not always the case that things go smoothly with engine builds.
So if it's driving as well as you say I'd just leave it and enjoy it. You could spend all that money on "improving" it only to end up with problems after that which you don't have now and even if it all goes perfectly someone could write it off for you the next day.
I honestly cannot see the point in doing all that work when it is spot on now anyway?
Why not just keep an eye out for a good secondhand spare engine and build it up over time yourself as a spare just in case.
So if it's driving as well as you say I'd just leave it and enjoy it. You could spend all that money on "improving" it only to end up with problems after that which you don't have now and even if it all goes perfectly someone could write it off for you the next day.
I honestly cannot see the point in doing all that work when it is spot on now anyway?
Why not just keep an eye out for a good secondhand spare engine and build it up over time yourself as a spare just in case.
as I said that's fine for just a quick freshen up but if you want it done properly 150k miles old valves that fail commonly through fatigue on these engines is NOT the answer. A hone on old pistons makes them sloppier in the bores.
To do it properly costs a lot of money. All the things you are saying are just shortcuts to freshen an engine up a bit. It's not a proper rebuild done how you are saying. 1000 quid wouldn't even cover the costs of the pumps, gaskets, belts, dephasor, lifters, valve guides even to do it your way without valves and pistons and a bore. That's before you even start on things like pistons and valve and bearings etc. And if you learned to read you would see I said including labour. 1000 quid on one of these cars is the sort of bill with labour you get just for a head gasket and doing the belts and dephasor.
Its a proper rebuild mate it wont make them lose in the bore if its over tolerance then it needs a hone. Simple stuff
Not gonna argue online about it my dads been doing it since he was 16 now 45 and we have had our family buisness over 20 years now rebuilding engines so im gonns go with what I no and do for a living
Not gonna argue online about it my dads been doing it since he was 16 now 45 and we have had our family buisness over 20 years now rebuilding engines so im gonns go with what I no and do for a living
if it's over tolerance it needs a bore and over sized pistons not a hone!
Sounds like you have a business repairing road car engines in a fairly cheap and cheerful manner and that's perfect for someone's old daily that needs a freshen up to be serviceable, but the person I was replying to wanted his engine "like new" so I was detailing what's involved to consider an engine to be like new rather than merely had the major issues fixed and put back together. They are VERY different things and if you only understand the one side of it then you just stick to just doing that side of it and you'll be fine I'm sure.
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I know Pete's had a full rebuild as I saw it in various stages of the build I.e right from the beginning when it was specced, I meant drives well as in the car in general, I have got a slight leak from the crankshaft seal, well I'm assuming that's what it is as it comes from between the box and the lump, its only very minor as in 12k miles I only top it up very slightly.
If it fid produce a leak etc after the rebuild I'd just send it back off 2 Dan 2 sort out as tbh he's been the only garaged iv used since having it barring one other place which ended up me having a cracked sump etc. Have never had any problems with any of Dans work and even tho I'm now 200+ miles away I'll still happily use him for anything I can't possibly tackle myself or cba to do
If it fid produce a leak etc after the rebuild I'd just send it back off 2 Dan 2 sort out as tbh he's been the only garaged iv used since having it barring one other place which ended up me having a cracked sump etc. Have never had any problems with any of Dans work and even tho I'm now 200+ miles away I'll still happily use him for anything I can't possibly tackle myself or cba to do
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The wrighting it off the next day could be put to anyone who's ever spent money on a car such as yourself with the turbo and RS2'd car, it's just one of those things which can't be predicted and tbh I'd rather just send the car off and not have it while the work is done and get it back all complete, don't have time with work to do anything on the car hence it taking 3 weeks to fit the new circlip and shaft. Just easier for me to drive to Dans and leave him the car as my mum dtill lives down bedford so it would be killing 2 birds with one stone
But with the turbo I get more performance so I get something for my money. I was saying if yours has no faults and only reason to do it was to hopefully last longer then it might not anyway. But since then you have mentioned the crank seal which changes things as that's only goin to get worse.
Thats what I ment if its over tolerance then it needs a bore.
Its not just road cars we build just finished an m3 track car thats just had 30k stuck into it. Our engine rebuild cost wasnt for that wasnt 4k it needed another head and a piston as it had dropped a valve and he is still going fine my dad use to build formular 3 engines so you can't say we dont do a proper job you aint got a clue what we do or seen any of our engines.
The job we do is fine as pretty much means you have a brand new lump if you have 4k to buy a crate engine from a main dealer then do it.
Its not just road cars we build just finished an m3 track car thats just had 30k stuck into it. Our engine rebuild cost wasnt for that wasnt 4k it needed another head and a piston as it had dropped a valve and he is still going fine my dad use to build formular 3 engines so you can't say we dont do a proper job you aint got a clue what we do or seen any of our engines.
The job we do is fine as pretty much means you have a brand new lump if you have 4k to buy a crate engine from a main dealer then do it.
So the m3 engine that dropped a valve got just the Head (new valves or secondhand whole head with more old valves?) and piston in that cylinder replaced?
That is not a properly rebuilt engine to be as new, that's just a repair and quick freshen up.
Bored of you now tbh. Ask your dad to explain the difference as hopefully he should actually know enough what he is talking about to explain to you what a PROPER rebuild involves!
Crate engine if you can find one for sensible money is an option so long as it's not too old stock or the rubber bits all perish.
That is not a properly rebuilt engine to be as new, that's just a repair and quick freshen up.
Bored of you now tbh. Ask your dad to explain the difference as hopefully he should actually know enough what he is talking about to explain to you what a PROPER rebuild involves!
Crate engine if you can find one for sensible money is an option so long as it's not too old stock or the rubber bits all perish.
If it's got 5 old pistons in it and secondhand fatigued valves then it's not "as new"
im sure it will be just fine and as race cars are lucky to see a dozen hours use a year probably last years too, but that is not what the guy was asking about. He was asking about "good as new" not about "serviceable condition" which is all you are talking about, and even then you are ignoring cost of things like removal and refitting and belts and dephasor and 100 quid in oil, coolant, oil filter, plugs!
i certainly know what a rebuild cost was on my race zetec engines , 4k is about spot on , and thats using a stock bottom end , balance the crank and pistons , pocket pistons for cams , fit new top end components including NEW valves and springs , time to rebuild and then run in on the dyno .....
FFS my Rotax Kart engines fully built with a new rod etc done to a proper tolerance (any monkey can rebuild a 2 stroke ) a decent engine that would win races ........ price , usually close to a grand !!
Know Neil Brown , he has built F3 engines since i was at school and everything else , can't see him saying the things you are , and i can't see him bothering with refreshes on old tat , a good race engine builder will go on to big things , or at least all the ones i have come across have
Did you need to gap the rings? or are the stock Renault ones already pre-gapped ready to fit straight up?
A couple of them needed gapping very slightly, but they were close enough that I could have got away with it if i just fitted them probably, but I would never recomend that to anyone as you can get unlucky, on the wosseners in my turbo for example one ring in particular needed way more gapping than the others, and it was definitely the ring at fault not the bore as I always selectively assemble so try each ring in each bore.
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