Removing and refitting F4R head + valves

[Matteh]

Got a bit of time, so was going to remove the head on my broken 172 engine and see how bad it is and refit it all properly!

I've got the cam cover and cams removed, to remove the head I just need to remove the exhaust manifold and then the head bolts.

what size torx bit (inverse torx? :S) do I need?

when it comes to refitting the head I'll need new headbolts, whats a good place to get them, or just pay the £70+ renault want? :S. I guess I'll need to buy a torque wrench too!

as for the valves.. I suspect that once I remove the head, I'll find some bent ones, can anyone give me some tips for removing and correctly reseating them?

do they have to go back in a specific order? I'd like to remove and refit all of them myself so that I know how they've been done (and hopefully do them properly). All this hydraulic stuff is a bit :S.


and then I need to buy the cambelt tool I guess


any help greatly appreciated! So close to having the conversion running

 

[mini-valver]

Get a valve spring compressor and a head set kit (Head gasket, manifold gaskets and more importantly, stem seals) then you rest the compressor on the base of the valve and on top around the collet. Clamp it, remove the collet and relase the clamp. TAke the valve caps and spring off and pull the valve out of the bottom. You'll see the stem seal stuck in place, use some long nose pliers to pull it off. When you get a new valve, you'll need some grinding paste. It's pretty easy touse though dude! Re-grind the valve, new stem seal on, replace the valve (smear the stem in fresh oil) and put the spring caps and spring back on, clamp it back up, collets back in, undo the clamp.

 

[mattjk]

Did you ask the lad whats going on who sold you the faulty engine BTW?

 

[Fred@BTM]

buy 1 new head bolt and measure it, then compare the length to your existing ones, might get away with reusing them, i wouldn't but if you're on a budget

 

[mattjk]

buy 1 new head bolt and measure it, then compare the length to your existing ones, might get away with reusing them, i wouldn't but if you're on a budget

Supposed to leave them in oil if your re-using the old ones arnt you? As to why I'm not sure lol

 

[Matteh]

If it's ok to re-use them, I will (they're only a few miles old) but I thought they were stretch bolts which shouldnt be reused?

anyone know the bit i need to remove the head bolts?

 

[ben_p]

e 14 socket for headbolts

 

[ben_p]

thats gona cost £500 in parts and tools IMO

just get a new engine.

 

[ben_p]

The bolts can be re-used if the length under the head does not exceed 117.7 mm (otherwise change all the bolts)​

 

[ben_p]

valves are like £15 each with the VAT (could cost upto £240)
then you need to get them re seated to the head (£50 -£100)
Tools to re fit the valves (£30)
Headbolts £50
Gasket Kit £90
cambelt kit £120
cambelt kit tools £100
torque wrench and angle guage (£60 - £150)

etc etc

at worst thats £880 at best its stil gona be £300-£400

 

[Matteh]

£500

I'm going to remove the head this afternoon and go from there really...

 

[Matteh]

I only need a new head gasket as the whole lot was only put on a few miles ago (i've driven it about a mile)

don't need a cambelt as again, that's brand new...


but i had no clue valves were that much!!

 

[Matteh]

just to add, I'm seriously looking for new engines, but there doesn't seem to be a lot out there?

 

[mattjk]

15 pound for a valve what a joke lol...

Metteh - I got my 182 engine for 250 pound off ebay which was basically brand new but at the end of the day its a risk because you dont know if the sellers trustworthy

 

[ben_p]

cough cough


http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=313879

 

[mattjk]

or you could ask ben to refurb that engine i got to him before.

 

[ben_p]

lol it wont fit

 

[ben_p]

or you could ask ben to refurb that engine i got to him before.

that one is fixed now

 

[mattjk]

Good point I'll get back in my hole.

Exhaust stem seals benji?

 

[ben_p]

yea two of them

 

[mattjk]

yea two of them

How much dya reckon that would have costed to have that done in a garage, new cambelt aswell as the pulleys have to come off correct?

Cost me about £350 all in. Do you think it would have been cheaper for the repair option?

Damn that mickey mouse compression gauge. Pressure went up when I lubed the cylinders!!

 

[ben_p]

not sure, had to wip the cams out etc, new belts and bits would of been more than £350 yea

 

[mattjk]

Yeah doing it out the car would have been easy lol

But im lazy otherwise I woulda had a stab but then I would have needed all those gay locking tools etc so not really worth the time or effort.

 

[Matteh]

head is off! (so much easier than the mk1)

cylinder 2

all the others *look* fine?

Should I still get the head leak tested? or just set about repairing cyl 2?

 

[ben_p]

you may find more are bent.

that piston looks fucked btw, lol should be reet though i think.. hey what do i know LOL

 

[Matteh]

fucked? :S only has 3 marks in it :S

 

[mattjk]

Why is piston 1 a differnet colour to the other

I dont know what colour they should be but if no 2 was leaking oil and its the same colour as 3 & 4 are they leaking too?

 

[ben_p]

f**ked? :S only has 3 marks in it :S

i dont know mate, i was just joshing.

btw check all the valves.

 

[Matteh]

no idea why #1 is a different colour :dapprove:

mattjk, no oil was leaking?

 

[Fred@BTM]

yoz has an engine

 

[mattjk]

no idea why #1 is a different colour :dapprove:

mattjk, no oil was leaking?

I dont know matey I was just making assumptions. There must be a reason why its different colour...

in the 2nd pic it looks a bit oily compared to cyl 3 dont you think? Need to see it properly really grr

 

[Matteh]

oh i see

so, based on these pics, what should I do next? scrap the engine or repair it?

I'm a total noob at engines, but I'm willing to give it a go! I've got this far, might as well continue!

 

[bmh.01]

Think i'd be tempted to try and find another long block at the right price tbh, you could spend £x repairing it and more could be wrong. You don't know what the clowns done with it after this.

Or hope the other valves are fine but I can't see how when if one exhaust valve is bent the other one should be too, it all seems like my sister built it so i'd be tempted to get rid .

 

[mattjk]

What about the lad that sold it to you, think you should have a word really

 

[SkidMarx]

Ive got a decent block for sale £100 its yours, was running before i removed it but the head on it is scrap. Its still all in one piece hasnt been stripped n messed about with..

 

[Matteh]

What about the lad that sold it to you, think you should have a word really

Danlp6 isn't easy to get hold of these days...

Ive got a decent block for sale £100 its yours, was running before i removed it but the head on it is scrap. Its still all in one piece hasnt been stripped n messed about with..

cheers, but I think I'll hold out for a non-fooked engine to avoid these issues again

 

[stan*]

get the head in a dark room, put a torch in each port, and see if yo can see light from the chamber side.
Or pour parafin in the chambers with the head up turned.

At the risk of fixing what could well be an otherwise dodgey engine, I would find a running unit. At a cost of 300-400, its potentially a money saver.

I would then set about reclaiming losses from certain people.

 

[Matteh]

ok cheers, I'll give that a go!

I am looking for new engines, but if all thats wrong with this one is a broken valve I'll see if I can repair it...

tricky though... throwing good money after bad

 

[stan*]

all you know thats wrong with it is a broken valve.

shoddy workmanship is apparent mate, you will be very gutted if after spending ££ on fixing it, it starts knocking its t**t off because the oil clearances werent checked after it was ground.

 

[Matteh]

true

would you say the lump is worth anything at all? or would it be best weighed in?