Renault going all electric from 2025

[Dameo220]

I'm not sure where to post this, or if there is a thread already on this topic, but I appoligise if there is.

I recently found out about this and it made me wonder what is going to happen to the rs models, I'm assuming they will be making a new version but how would it feel to own a fully electric clio sport? I just can't imagine it being that great

 

[Cliomaxx69]

Renault sport is dead, they announced it a while back. The sporty models will be Alpine

 

[Dameo220]

Renault sport is dead, they announced it a while back. The sporty models will be Alpine

I've only ever owned renualt/renualt sport cars so I'm not sure how I feel about that, I had figured they would find some way to continue it but I guess not.. 😏

Thanks for explaining that tho

 

[R3k1355]

Fully electric RS model would be amazing, fast on a whole other level.

Battery won't hold up tho, can have speed or range, not both.

 

[Dameo220]

Fully electric RS model would be amazing, fast on a whole other level.

Battery won't hold up tho, can have speed or range, not both.

I know the battery powered cars can be rapid, but I can't imagine them being much fun, maybe it's something you could enjoy after getting used to it but it just seems like it would be too quiet and unusual. Even running engine sound through the internal speakers wouldn't help I dont think, I have that option with the rs monitor but I never use it. And yes I agree cars can be rapid on battery power but as you say the range would be terrible. I drive 4.5 hours upto scotland a handful of times a year and that trip on battery would be hard to manage I bet.

 

[Cliomaxx69]

I drove an electric Kangoo, very relaxing drive, and a lot of torque but I can't imagine driving a "fun" or "sporty" electric car. Fast yes, but not as fun as an ICE

 

[Dameo220]

I drove an electric Kangoo, very relaxing drive, and a lot of torque but I can't imagine driving a "fun" or "sporty" electric car. Fast yes, but not as fun as an ICE

Yeah that's my worry, after hearing it's Alpine taking over I looked at what I could find online, even though it's the renualt sport team that's still involved there making a fully electric hot hatch, I just can't see it being that good but I'd be glad to be wrong on that.

 

[Brigsy]

End of an era for the petrolheads sadly.

 

[Starlet_gt]

End of an era for the petrolheads sadly.

Very true, bikes will be going the same way aswell. Dreading it.

 

[Short Norman]

So we’re are banning ICE by 2030 and the EU are aiming for 2035.

However I’ve read that Germany are resisting the 2035 date, saying a complete ban on ICE cars will prevent new technology such as synthetic fuels from being developed.

wonder how light they could make an EV car with a 150-200 mile range.

A mini EV is just over 1300kg with 170 bhp and 145 mile range. Get the weight under 1200 kg and make it rear wheel drive and I’d imagine it could be a decent drive. A bit soulless still, but it could be fun.

 

[charltjr]

Well, the German car industry is lobbying hard along those lines for sure. But none of it matters, the existing next phase of EU emissions rules are so strict that manufacturers are halting development of ICE as they are becoming uneconomic and the writing is on the wall anyway.

They would need to develop new generations of engine as they can only take the level of emissions on the current engines so far, and they know they won't get the return on that investment with the way the market is shifting.

BEV is the future, it has all the momentum, there is no stopping it. For what the average punter wants they are just a better solution, refined, cheap to run, cheap to maintain, more reliable, instant response and better real world performance. Charging is definitely a limitation at the moment, but for passenger cars it's all over for ICE.

Economies of scale are really starting to come into effect now, it won't be long before the equivalent BEV has price parity with ICE and then it really is all over. Unless you have a clear need for regular long range travel or literally cannot charge the car because of local infrastructure problems, there will be no metric on which an ICE wins for the average driver.

 

[R3k1355]

Germany are resisting because they've been kinda late to the game. VW in particular went mental for SUV's and crossovers, while EV development was pretty sluggish.

 

[MarkCup]

A mini EV is just over 1300kg with 170 bhp and 145 mile range. Get the weight under 1200 kg and make it rear wheel drive and I’d imagine it could be a decent drive. A bit soulless still, but it could be fun.

50kgs aside, you have just described my i3S. Fun it is, very entertaining...but not truly engaging.

As for the lack of noise, honestly, and having just got back from a Donnington trackday listening to my flat-six scream at 7,200 RPM, on the drive into work this morning in the i3 I don't miss the engine noise one bit.

It makes its own noise, whines, whirrs, whistles...sure it's no combustion noise replacement, but I really quite like and enjoy what I hear.

I don't fear the future at all, once we can sort out higher capacity, lower weight, and faster charging battery tech, I will personally be all over it.

 

[R3k1355]

For most people the lack of noise is a good thing. No-one wants to hear a 1600 diesel clattering down the road, ora boring 1.2T in a flabby SUV.

You don't wanna hear it when you're driving them, you don't wanna hear it when you're outside of them.

 

[charltjr]

I do think it's a real shame that we have to lose genuinely good, tuneful ICE engines alongside all the drek. Is anyone really going to miss boggo four pot engines though? Doubt it.

 

[alistairolsen]

Fully electric RS model would be amazing, fast on a whole other level.

Battery won't hold up tho, can have speed or range, not both.

Horseshit

with electric cars having performance requires having range as cell discharge rate is a huge factor.

 

[charltjr]

Horseshit

Don't hold back, tell us how you really feel

 

[dangerous dave]

When I got my Porsche Boxster s with the pdk auto I was told it was the wrong car, would lack feel, wasn’t a petrol head car and any other stereotypical bs from people who couldn’t afford one.

it was awesome and I felt no need to correct them.

now they all tell me how amazing they’re golf r dsg type motors are and how cutting edge they are, ten years later.

these sporty or remotely fast electric cars are going to make you fill you pants with the brown rain and a front boner at the same time.

all you will have to do is mash that pedal and you’ll forget about gear shifting..

I wonder what dumb stuff people will fit to make noise. Bumper whistles so it sounds like a spitfire coming in, or louder tyres so it hums up the road 80% more than OE.

electric cars will (eventually) be incredible…

you just won’t be able to fix them.

 

[charltjr]

you just won’t be able to fix them.

Disagree - maybe it's because I'm comfortable with electronics, but I am far less worried about being able to fix an EV motor than an engine. They are very simple things. Likewise, identifying and swapping out dead battery cells, no worries.

It's just a different skill set.

OK there is the minor issue of potential instant death if you don't respect an EV battery pack. But I'm sure that will never happen. Often. Every month or two. Regularly.

 

[alistairolsen]

How many people actually 'fix' their own engine or gearbox anyway? The rest is very much the same as any other car

 

[Brigsy]

I can see EV being very expensive to fix if something goes wrong with the battery, charging system or battery pack, going on the current ones. Will most likely end up being disposable cars after a handful of years. Wont be worth buying outright, just rent and get a new one when its knackered.

Knackers up us diy'ers who want to run about on a budget. Also id imagine lack of tuning for us who like to make slow cars faster, ao your stuck with what your given essentially.

Still i should be alright as cant see the current hot ICE cars dissappearing overnight. Prob be too old to care when they are gone.

 

[charltjr]

Again, disagree. The technology so far has been proven to be very long lasting and as they become more and more common the aftermarket will catch up.

It's not like you can't buy a 3rd party battery or charger for a laptop.

I know the battery management units on a car are a totally different level of complexity to a laptop charger, but it's just electronics. Reverse engineering it is going to be possible and can be outsourced to any number of PCB fabricators. Swap the module out and away you go.

An awful lot of this stuff is already common across brands. All of the Vauxhall/Citroen/Peugeot EVs use the same powertrains and battery packs. Tesla use the same battery management modules across a lot of their range. Bosch and Continental are big players in providing off the shelf EV components to car companies.

It's actually going to be easier to fix, because it's not like trying to replace an engine-specific component.

I've no doubt there will be tales of woe initially, just like there were with common rail diesel injectors etc, but the aftermarket will catch up.

 

[Short Norman]

I can see EV being very expensive to fix if something goes wrong with the battery, charging system or battery pack, going on the current ones. Will most likely end up being disposable cars after a handful of years. Wont be worth buying outright, just rent and get a new one when its knackered.

Knackers up us diy'ers who want to run about on a budget. Also id imagine lack of tuning for us who like to make slow cars faster, ao your stuck with what your given essentially.

Still i should be alright as cant see the current hot ICE cars dissappearing overnight. Prob be too old to care when they are gone.

You never know EV’s might be reliable

some Zoe’s are knocking on for 8 years old and I’ve not heard any horror stories about them (most are fairly low miles though). I also read that the batteries were lasting better than expected

 

[charltjr]

Zoe has had some fairly serious issues with the battery management system, mostly handled under warranty thankfully.

A lot of the battery degradation on early EVs like the Leaf was because they were air cooled and also quite early battery chemistries. A lot of learning and improvement has happened since then, very rare to find a battery pack which isn't liquid cooled/heated now.

 

[botfch]

Majority of Teslas are good for 200k and only lose 10% capacity by that point.

If anything evs are already more reliable than ice cars, Not many do 200k without some form of engine work/maintenance.

 

[Waitey]

Also the ban is on pure ICE not hybrids with an ICE element.

So ICE will live on for a fair old time.

 

[dangerous dave]

I can see EV being very expensive to fix if something goes wrong with the battery, charging system or battery pack, going on the current ones. Will most likely end up being disposable cars after a handful of years. Wont be worth buying outright, just rent and get a new one when its knackered.

Knackers up us diy'ers who want to run about on a budget. Also id imagine lack of tuning for us who like to make slow cars faster, ao your stuck with what your given essentially.

Still i should be alright as cant see the current hot ICE cars dissappearing overnight. Prob be too old to care when they are gone.

All people have to do is look at apple’s (and Tesla) business models.
They make self repair and 3 party repair near impossible. They make they motherboards with chips that have golden handshake deals on, no one else can buy those electronics to repair parts.

You must buy new parts. From them, which are getting coded and unswappable from one device to another

buy wait, they offer repair manuals and limited parts now, they’re great.. (erm no)

other company’s are following this lead, theyre locking down tech and supplies to block out 3rd party’s. Making electronics a deeper rabbit hole..

If things carry on you won’t be able to swap any part from 2 identical cars without a manufacturer coding it or a trip to rainman in a secret location. Probably made worse because the new cars will have some subscription based options and any tampering will dumb the car down.

am I wearing a tin foil hat?
Nope, this stuff happens with apple and Samsung phones, I believe Tesla wraps you in knots, John deere is guilty, harley got a slap for cancelling warranty’s over self servicing which is illegal.

im all for electric cars, but I can’t see the best stuff being good to people like us. We buy cars, collect used parts and run them cheap..

If I pretend none of this goes on, then it doesn’t go on right?

 

[charltjr]

It goes on, but the aftermarket always finds a way.

Wasn't so long ago that the coding of car modules/ECUs to the car as an anti-theft protection (allegedly) was supposed to be doom for any DIY, but now coding modules is just normal.

When the volume is sufficient, those protections will be cracked. There is too much profit in it for it not to happen.

 

[Brigsy]

No doubt the aftermarket will cover the parts especially china. Whether you will be actually be allowed to fit it as a non competent person and info is available on how to do it who knows.

Im certainly not frightened with fixing electronics but some stuff will be quite complex compared to a current few bolts on an engine, and various ecus.

Interested to see how it all pans out tbh.

 

[alistairolsen]

Again though, unless you actually dig into the guts of an engine rebuild, it's irrelevant.

All new ICE cars now have multiple ECUs and modules which need coding, down to things like handbrake actuators and there's pretty much always a way.

There are plenty of people who own and maintain or modify cars and the only thing they do with the engine is put oil in, or remap it.

For 90% of the vehicle, it's exactly the same, and for the 10% that's different, the number of people actually digging into it is tiny and of those, only the ones tuning it matter really as otherwise it's just swapping out components - which is far less likely with an electric powertrain in the first place.

The issue isn't EVs, it's modern cars with online updates etc and that's coming regardless of drivetrain as we can see with BMWs heated seats subscription.

 

[E30kev]

a trip to rainman in a secret location

Flol 🤣

 

[Darren S]

I just f**king hate EVs. Simple as that.

I hate what they represent and what ultimately they will take away from me. The requirement for the number of petrol stations will drop, favouring the b*****d charging points - so then you're travelling further to get to a place to fill up.

As the network reduces, the proportional cost per litre will also rise - again, as the usage cost of charging points starts to decrease. Then, while you're down on your knees - the Govt. will kick you in the b****cks with increased VED because you're driving a 'derty ICE'.

Commonality of EV forward motion is a major issue for me. You can increase the power - you can increase the range. Yet the behaviour and involvement of driving that will be virtually identical. Press pedal - whirr noise - off you go. For a transport mechanism to get from A to B, that works well. For feeling like going for a drive for the sake of it - yeah right. You have a multitude of engine configurations, feedback, noise and involvement with ICE that simply cannot be replicated with electric. And even if they try, they are fake - which makes its attempt to emulate ICE ever more cringe.

Would I buy an electric car new today, compared to a new ICE equivalent? No chance. Will I have to a some point? Most likely - and that is the day that I genuinely dread. I don't have the space or the means to afford multiple cars - so to solely be limited to an EV in the future is frankly quite terrifying.

The fact that even now, sat in the office, I'm already thinking of which way to drive home in my 17-year-old RenaultSport (RIP) 182 and which way will be more fun. More so, that a cross-hills road has now been resurfaced and I'm looking to the throttle blips and downshifts already.

I'll be hanging on for as long as feasibly possible with ICE. In the meantime, EVs can get to f**k. Then go f**k themselves again for good measure. In fire. Off a cliff.

 

[charltjr]

You might be right, you might not. No-one has made a genuinely driver focused EV yet. In development terms these are very, very early days.

Obviously things like heel and toe are dead and gone, but then they only exist to get around the deficiencies of the drivetrain anyway and are a seriously niche thing.

In terms of driver engagement I hope you're wrong, but I fear you may well be right.

 

[alistairolsen]

On one side of the argument, I'd say that all went west a long time ago and most modern cars lack driver focus. On that current trend even if ICE was to continue, they'll be numb and heavy and muted.

On the other side of the argument, if what you care about it a shouty, loud ICE engine, then they'll still be available for 20+ years used and whilst petrol stations will diminish, except in rural areas it'll still be pretty manageable for cars.

Motorbikes on the other hand, I'm very concerned about, it doesnt take too much to make many journeys impossible on a 100 mile tank range.

 

[Darren S]

You might be right, you might not. No-one has made a genuinely driver focused EV yet. In development terms these are very, very early days.

Obviously things like heel and toe are dead and gone, but then they only exist to get around the deficiencies of the drivetrain anyway and are a seriously niche thing.

In terms of driver engagement I hope you're wrong, but I fear you may well be right.

Flaws often translate to quirks that themselves transform into admiration and genuine appreciation. Humans are strange like that - they want to exploit the trickiness - they like the challenge and more so when they get it right.

I'd much rather tackle a decent A-road in a rev-happy Duratec'd Caterham than do a Santa Pod launch in a 2ton+ Plaid. Anyone can repeat the same time, again and again on the latter Stomp & Go test - but the former would take genuine skill to improve upon.

On one side of the argument, I'd say that all went west a long time ago and most modern cars lack driver focus. On that current trend even if ICE was to continue, they'll be numb and heavy and muted.

On the other side of the argument, if what you care about it a shouty, loud ICE engine, then they'll still be available for 20+ years used and whilst petrol stations will diminish, except in rural areas it'll still be pretty manageable for cars.

Motorbikes on the other hand, I'm very concerned about, it doesnt take too much to make many journeys impossible on a 100 mile tank range.

I am glad in some ways that I'm not a biker - including reasons like this above. And surely, the accident rate for motorcyclists MUST increase if every bike was electric powered?

How many times would the comment of "I didn't hear him" be used as a reason for another bike being involved in an RTA?

 

[charltjr]

Flaws often translate to quirks that themselves transform into admiration and genuine appreciation. Humans are strange like that - they want to exploit the trickiness - they like the challenge and more so when they get it right.

I'd much rather tackle a decent A-road in a rev-happy Duratec'd Caterham than do a Santa Pod launch in a 2ton+ Plaid. Anyone can repeat the same time, again and again on the latter Stomp & Go test - but the former would take genuine skill to improve upon.

No argument from me.

 

[Starlet_gt]

For me, when bikes go electric, I'll probably give it a miss. I love the sound, the gear shifts, the pop on a down shift etc. Won't get that with electric.

 

[MarkCup]

Ignoring the fact that no one has yet made a light EV sports car, the only things you lose by having an electric drivetrain are vibration and noise.

That's it.

My i3 is far removed from being like my Clio 172 Cup, but if that electric drivetrain could be packaged into a 172 Cup body without any weight penalty, the driver engagement for me would still be there.

Surely the packaging will improve? And if it does, would the lack of noise and vibration really matter that much?

Having now driven 1300 miles pushed along by electrons, I can say for me it really doesn't. The pros far outweigh the cons.

 

[Starlet_gt]

Ignoring the fact that no one has yet made a light EV sports car, the only things you lose by having an electric drivetrain are vibration and noise.

That's it.

My i3 is far removed from being like my Clio 172 Cup, but if that electric drivetrain could be packaged into a 172 Cup body without any weight penalty, the driver engagement for me would still be there.

Surely the packaging will improve? And if it does, would the lack of noise and vibration really matter that much?

Having now driven 1300 miles pushed along by electrons, I can say for me it really doesn't. The pros far outweigh the cons.

I know I'm going back to talking about bikes again, but nothing beats the noise of riding a bike at 10k+rpm. It's hard to explain the rush. I can't see how you can match that with an electric variant.

 

[Dameo220]

Will it ever even be possible to produce enough electric to charge millions of cars overnight at the same time? And if they manage to produce that amount wont it just pass on the emissions from the cars to the place where they produce the juice? I'm assuming solar can't be used as the source since the majority of people will be charging at night and they don't have the ability to store that kind of energy from the days 🌞, especially since the UK's weather is mostly s**t anyway. So they'll have to use nuclear, wind farm or burn the fuel, so how does that save on emissions overall? And when you consider the manufacturing processes for the amount of batteries that would have to be made just to power the UK's cars surely working on cleaner engines or fuels would be a better way forward? I'm literally guessing at all of that and I'm genuinely curious to the answers, I remember a guy years ago telling me that ethanol was the best option as it literally produces water out of the exhaust as well as increasing the power from an engine, now that could be totally wrong but I'd like to hear your guys opinions on that?