Repetitive Throttle Body Problems

[RobBrodie]

Hey Guys

I wanted to ask about this as its something i'm having repetitive problems with and i am currently having issues with now

So i am currently on my 3rd throttle body and needing a 4th

When my throttle bodies die i either turn the car on and it idles high/erratic and the pedal does nothing OR under load (i.e in 5th at 55/60mph on the motorway pulling out to over take a lorry) the car will drop into limp mode - as its doing now

I don't think this will effect it but i have a 172 Cup and it is using a 182 ecu (brought it like this)

Every time I've had this issue I've brought a secondhand throttle body, thrown it on and its sorted the problem. But obviously i'd rather this didn't keep happening especially on my way to the track like this weekend! :weary:

I'm just wondering if I'm the only person having this problem? has anyone found an issue that has led to the throttle body's failing? I'm going to give the cable between pedal and TB a check over. Anything else worth checking?

Any help or advice will be really appreciated!
Cheers
Rob

 

[bloke]

you 100% it's got a 182 ecu? has it also got 182 uch and by any chance service light on the dash constantly lit?

it's very rare to be the body, normally bad connection. when it goes into limp mode any lights coming up on the dash? how do you clear it from limp mode or does it just go when you lift off?

 

[JamesBryan]

If this is the 4th throttle body, it's probably safe to say that this isn't the issue. I can't see all of them failing.

 

[RobBrodie]

you 100% it's got a 182 ecu? has it also got 182 uch and by any chance service light on the dash constantly lit?

it's very rare to be the body, normally bad connection. when it goes into limp mode any lights coming up on the dash? how do you clear it from limp mode or does it just go when you lift off?

Im not 100% no but yes i have all the fault codes you would expect with running a 182 ecu - abs, ac etc
In all honesty ive never heard of the uch but after a quick search i might not have one from a 182. The car starts really odd, ie the engine turns dies then fires up really quick and i also get the hazards flash if you close the windows.
I guess this could be the answer then?
Just a case of sourcing one from a 182 and plugging it in?

Edit: to clear limp mode i just switch the ignition on and off again

Thanks for your help buddy!

If this is the 4th throttle body, it's probably safe to say that this isn't the issue. I can't see all of them failing.

This is my thinking, hence the thread


Cheers for the help so far!

 

[RIC172]

Hey Guys

I don't think this will effect it but i have a 172 Cup and it is using a 182 ecu (brought it like this)

I would be looking at changing the ecu to the correct one rather than swapping any more throttle bodies? It could be what is causing the issues. Of course, just my opinion.

 

[STEVE.M]

In all honesty I`ve never heard of the uch but after a quick search i might not have one from a 182.!

All PH2 172 & 182`s have the Sirius 34 ECU.
The fact the car runs means that the UCH & ECU are communicating.
Later UCH can be reprogrammed with CLIP to cover functions of the earlier type.
Your throttle body circuit problemwill be poor connection/loom corrosion, take it to Rentech in Portsmouth to get it sorted.

 

[RobBrodie]

I would be looking at changing the ecu to the correct one rather than swapping any more throttle bodies? It could be what is causing the issues. Of course, just my opinion.

Ive thought about this but i cant really see the problem with running a 182 tb on a 182 ecu. If you catch my drift. Logically i cant understand why it would kill tb's.

All PH2 172 & 182`s have the Sirius 34 ECU.
The fact the car runs means that the UCH & ECU are communicating.
Later UCH can be reprogrammed with CLIP to cover functions of the earlier type.
Your throttle body circuit problemwill be poor connection/loom corrosion, take it to Rentech in Portsmouth to get it sorted.
View attachment 1361675 View attachment 1361675

What functions would i need to have programmed? The car has already been to rentech and mike said that he couldnt delete most of the codes that caused the engine light.
Ill take a look at the rest of the loom, and connectors to see if i can see anything wrong.
If the loom is damaged, are you saying that the broken tb's i have will work once the loom is fixed? - do you think the damaged loom would actually damage the tb?

Thanks for all the help and suggestions so far!

 

[bloke]

sounds like a faulty uch and also wiring/connection issues.

 

[STEVE.M]

Ive thought about this but i cant really see the problem with running a 182 tb on a 182 ecu. If you catch my drift. Logically i cant understand why it would kill tb's.


What functions would i need to have programmed? The car has already been to rentech and mike said that he couldnt delete most of the codes that caused the engine light.
Ill take a look at the rest of the loom, and connectors to see if i can see anything wrong.
If the loom is damaged, are you saying that the broken tb's i have will work once the loom is fixed? - do you think the damaged loom would actually damage the tb?

Thanks for all the help and suggestions so far!

If Mike could not delete the codes, it means the fault is still present & requires further investigation.
Changing the TB may effect a temporary fix, as you have disturbed the wiring, so that would be a good place to look, though corrosion to the connections to the large white plug in the engine bay fuse box is a very common cause.
I found this thread regarding UCH types, and Mick providing the information is the man to go to.
https://www.cliosport.net/threads/uch-versions.717896/

 

[bloke]

faulty uch can stop codes from being deleted.

 

[RobBrodie]

If Mike could not delete the codes, it means the fault is still present & requires further investigation.
Changing the TB may effect a temporary fix, as you have disturbed the wiring, so that would be a good place to look, though corrosion to the connections to the large white plug in the engine bay fuse box is a very common cause.
I found this thread regarding UCH types, and Mick providing the information is the man to go to.
https://www.cliosport.net/threads/uch-versions.717896/

faulty uch can stop codes from being deleted.

sounds like a faulty uch and also wiring/connection issues.

Ok so looks like ive got my plan of attack: check wiring/connections see if theres anything obvious.
Check the 'white plug'
Still no difference then look at uch

Lets say one of the contacts had rusted up and thats causing the throttle issue. Would you say that replacing the uch would be worth while to see if it sorts my weird starting issue? - ill try and get a video of this over the weekend... It is bizzare

Again thanks for your help guys, it really appreciated!

 

[STEVE.M]

Nothing will be obvious, all the wires will look lovely red white & blue to the eye, but could be green on the inside.
If you get paid double for Bank holidays, do that & take it to Mick.
See post 47 of this thread.
https://www.cliosport.net/threads/replacing-a-uch-what-is-needed.696575/page-2

 

[RobBrodie]

so managed to spend some time on the clio tonight

I had a look at the UCH and couldn't see any obvious issues, no water ingress, burns etc - of course you cant always see issues with this sort of thing

checked the contacts on the Tb itself and they were very very clean, still shiny and like new

then moved onto the white loom plug - pics attached
yes it was dirty before hand but only 2 of the pins actually had visual rust/oxidization, the pins looked generally quite clean
i gave it all a clean and chucked it back together with a tiny bit of Vaseline on the pins

chucked it all back together and its still dropping into limp mode
something i have noticed is that it drops into limp mode at 3k and once the car is warm, oil temps at 85+ degrees

 

[Hussain2000x]

so managed to spend some time on the clio tonight

I had a look at the UCH and couldn't see any obvious issues, no water ingress, burns etc - of course you cant always see issues with this sort of thing

checked the contacts on the Tb itself and they were very very clean, still shiny and like new

then moved onto the white loom plug - pics attached
yes it was dirty before hand but only 2 of the pins actually had visual rust/oxidization, the pins looked generally quite clean
i gave it all a clean and chucked it back together with a tiny bit of Vaseline on the pins

chucked it all back together and its still dropping into limp mode
something i have noticed is that it drops into limp mode at 3k and once the car is warm, oil temps at 85+ degrees

I've had a issue with those white plugs on my 1.4 Clio I just wiggle it around and suddenly it goes out of limp mode and it fixes it so I assume try to wiggle yours around it'll take sometime but suddenly itll go away hope it works for you aswell!


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[RobBrodie]

I've had a issue with those white plugs on my 1.4 Clio I just wiggle it around and suddenly it goes out of limp mode and it fixes it so I assume try to wiggle yours around it'll take sometime but suddenly itll go away hope it works for you aswell!


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Thanks for the reply but i just dont think this is the problem here, ive moved it about alot yesterday while cleaning it up and its made no difference. Sounds like youve got a dodgey pin and socket that could do with replacing in your plug

 

[chris blue]

had troubles with my throttle body when clio was first purchased, replaced the throttle cable that broke, replaced the throttle cable again, took throttle body off cleaned it, took it back off and cleaned again, sent it off to have it rebored, new butterfly spindle and cleaned up for £85, and lastly got another throttle body. All made a bit of a difference, but none cured

at the very beginning i removed the ICV and cleaned it.
At the end i replaced it- end of problem. LOL

NB: it is still very slightly twitchy thats why i have a decal "sticky throttle" on bonnet as i get a few filthy looks at shows when i have to rev it a bit occasionally.

 

[RobBrodie]

had troubles with my throttle body when clio was first purchased, replaced the throttle cable that broke, replaced the throttle cable again, took throttle body off cleaned it, ...

Thanks for your help buddy but unfortunately the cup uses a fly by wire TB. Although i wish it didnt! ...

 

[chris blue]

Thanks for your help buddy but unfortunately the cup uses a fly by wire TB. Although i wish it didnt! ...

maybe thats your answer- convert to cable operated throttle body. Cant be that hard, or expensive?

 

[RobBrodie]

maybe thats your answer- convert to cable operated throttle body. Cant be that hard, or expensive?

Would need a new ecu for starters i believe

 

[STEVE.M]

maybe thats your answer- convert to cable operated throttle body. Cant be that hard, or expensive?

It could be.

 

[RobBrodie]

It could be.

One day!

Any ideas on my next step steve? Searching threads like nobodys business here and struggling to find ideas. Atm im thinking of hooking the pedal off and seeing if theres anything suspicious there - i know i wont find anything though!...

 

[STEVE.M]

One day!

Any ideas on my next step steve? Searching threads like nobodys business here and struggling to find ideas. Atm im thinking of hooking the pedal off and seeing if theres anything suspicious there - i know i wont find anything though!...

I`m not sure, other than to say go back and look again.
It will not be the pins where you split the plug, but where the pins are soldered to the loom.
I have arrowed 3 pins that look bent and have possibly been pulled from the plug and replaced at 180 degrees to the rest.
Closer inspection required? And their matching females.

 

[RobBrodie]

Stuck a new throttle body on yesterday and its cured the problem.

I agree there is another underlying issue here but if there was, a new tb shouldnt sort it...

Fricking electrics

 

[RobBrodie]

.. i checked the cable from the tb to bulk head cleaning every plug on the way wnd found no real issues at all

 

[bloke]

I agree there is another underlying issue here but if there was, a new tb shouldnt sort it...

Fricking electrics

Have you said that the other three times:tongueclosed:

Very rare to get a faulty body.

 

[bloke]

I agree there is another underlying issue here but if there was, a new tb shouldnt sort it...

Fricking electrics

Have you said that the other three times:tongueclosed:

Very rare to get a faulty body.

 

[Fletcher]

Have you had it plugged into a CLIP system yet Rob, as that may shed some light on your issues?

 

[RobBrodie]

Have you said that the other three times:tongueclosed:

Very rare to get a faulty body.

I have yeah haha.
So are you sugggesting that there is another problem causing 'wear' on the TB?
Because if i had replaced the TB and the issue remained, id agreee that something is causing it. But everytime a replace it, its sorts the problem. So IMO, the TB's ive had, have broken.

Hopefully i making sense here...

Have you had it plugged into a CLIP system yet Rob, as that may shed some light on your issues?

Its been into mike just after its happened in the past and he said he couldnt see any problem fletch. Maybe ill give him a call and see if he thinks its worth having abother look.

 

[bloke]

When you change a body you disturb the wiring on the plug/loom, take it from there and work back.

You can't just look at wiring/connections you've got to resistance check them and see what tjat comes up with.

Think about it logically, if you've had four throttle bodies that were fault on the one car there would be hundreds of people posting with dead throttle bodies.

 

[RobBrodie]

When you change a body you disturb the wiring on the plug/loom, take it from there and work back.

You can't just look at wiring/connections you've got to resistance check them and see what tjat comes up with.

Think about it logically, if you've had four throttle bodies that were fault on the one car there would be hundreds of people posting with dead throttle bodies.

Completely agree with everything your saying and the fact that there isnt a global shortage of throttle bodys means that people can't be having the same problem as me . But if a cable has deteriated(for example) and causing the problem then that problem would remain if i were to fit a brand new TB. I garantee that my dead TB's i have got kicking about are dead, id put alot of money on them not working on Fletches car for instance.
So going back to my previous question, is it possible that something somewhere is causing wear on the TB?

I dont belive that disturbing the wiring when fitting a new TB may have sorted the problem. Because thats the least disruptive thing ive done to the wiring.

 

[bloke]

Try them on another car then. Easy to do.

 

[bloke]

Or have you tried one back on your car since you took one off?

 

[RobBrodie]

Or have you tried one back on your car since you took one off?

I havent actually, ill give it a go next week. Im racing this weekend so dont really want to touch it before!

 

[skopusnik]

I havent actually, ill give it a go next week. Im racing this weekend so dont really want to touch it before!

Have you find a solution? I have the same problem, thought it's faulty TB, changed it with another one from my first car (worked perfectly there as I'm using car every day), than I drove 10 kilometers on track and have same problem again.
Haven't tried the first one from race car on daily yet, I'll give it a go tomorrow, as I think it's not really TB problem.

 

[RobBrodie]

Have you find a solution? ....

Afraid not buddy. I've cleaned up just about all of the plugs etc i can find but with no joy. Im fairly confident its not the tb's giving up and that something is pottentially killing the tb's.

I've recently brought a 172 ecu, uch etc. To swap for the 182 versions that are currently on my car(im currently using a 182 set up on a 172 cup. I brought the car like it) in the hope that might help solve some of the problems. Im ages away from fitting it though in all honesty, the cars in peices atm

Would like to find someone whos cured this issue tbh!...

 

[STEVE.M]

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=9...A6tM:&imgrc=_WfLpCDYsmelfM:&spf=1541977801648

 

[skopusnik]

I'll let you know if we found a solution, guess we will be working on car this week.

 

[DanielG]

Following with interest, as this sounds similar to my issues. I'm on my 4th body as well, however my failure symptoms are a bit different to yours.

Mine seem to get progressively more on/off in their application, only noticeable once the cars had a few runs on track, then will appear to 'stick' momentarily when above 6500/7000rpm such that the revs flare when you go to shift. If it clips the limiter whilst doing this, it goes into limp mode. It will also start juddering (like the butterfly is opening/closing rapidly) if trying to hold very low throttle opening (say <20%)

 

[skopusnik]

Still have no solution - any idea from you guys?