Rotary vs DA polisher choice

[lucky13]

So before anyone mentions I have done quite a bit of research into all this polishing stuff! And I thought I was set on getting the das 6 Although I must admit I wasnt sure if I should go for the pro variant or the standard model I must admit.

Anyway latest searches seem to show a lot of people popping into threads saying they started with a rotary and its not difficult blah blah and it's so much quicker than a da. People who have had both seem to say this also but the at least they had experience to learn from mistakes possibly?

So if someone could point me in the right direction here I would be greatful. It will be used on my Clio 182 which is black and has so many swirls I can't bear to look at it closely when the suns out and it really ruins the lengths I go to get it nice and clean!

 

[Cliotoby]

If you've never used a machine polisher before - DA.

If you have - Rotary.

Im not saying rotary is better, just as you already know its "dangerous". DA can be dangerous - you are at the end of the day removing clear coat however I think its easier to get a decent result with DA and it is without question fairly hard to burn through paint with a DA. I mean Ive literally hammered a single area of paintwork on my old car and on test bonnets with the DA and nothing has happened. DA simply does not have the torque (Unless were talking flex!) to do major damage in that sense.

Rotary does have the torque. Dealing with BMW paint for example which isnt in great shame is a f**king ballache with DA. if youre compounding with a rotary it takes seconds of a little pressure and not moving the machine atall to burn. Compounding with a rotary also has more bite which means the machine can hop if youre doing it wrong. Rotary is also MUCH faster than DA when breaking down a polish (if you want it to be) which isnt always the best thing.

However rotary is cheaper (generally) and you do have that added benefit of tackling bad paintwork. So long as you follow guidelines and dont be a moron youll be perfectly fine. Just make sure you use the correct technique and finish the polish down properly. Ive not touched a DA for about 2 years now.

A polish like Gtechniq P1 needs working at lower speeds to regular polishes like the Mezerna range. So you get less heat from the lower speeds - maybe something to consider.

 

[chris_p]

Tough one.

I went for a das, and after a looong detail on my RB 182 I thought I'd made a mistake.
Since then I bought a black BMW (notoriously hard paint!), I'd researched different techniques and had another go. I was amazed at the difference I had in changing technique! Really good correction. It still took a long time, but it does.

Da and rotary are different to use anyway so your practicing on a DA is pointless IMO.
Lots of people with rotarys use DAs too, and this isn't just for applying glazes etc.

I probably haven't helped much, it's just my experiences, I wouldn't like to speculate as I've never used a rotary myself!

 

[lucky13]

Sounds like some great advice there which I will certainly consider. Thank you for the brief write up. I noticed you and others have pretty much implied that a DA is not capable of full correction? Is that correct? Or is is capable but will just take a very long time?

As a beginner I'm only interested for my first few runs with it to remove lots of swirl marks. I'm guessing a DA would be fine with this once the correct pad and polish are found? If you could confirm that for me it would be great.
Thanks again

 

[lucky13]

Thanks for the input Chris. It's good to hear from someone who's in the position i am and taken the step of using it on the same car I'm looking at doing first of all. Say you are working just on the bonnet, how many passes are you looking at would you think? I don't mind it taking a whole but it would piss me off it doesn't even seem to be making a difference to the look of the panel after each pass.

 

[Cliotoby]

DA will perform full correction, eventually. Takes time on harder paint - Its all about the polish and pad combo IMO. Rotary as people have said is much quicker.

Its not right that I recommend polish and pad combo as ive never worked with Black Gold, and Ive not seen the state of your paintwork. All about getting the right combination to remove the minimal amount of clearcoat necessary. If you read the guides you start off with a lighter polish and pad combo and if that doesnt correct the first "hit" you do then step it up.

The problem with rotary for beginners comes from heavy compounding work, a hard pad and compound needs a bit more care.

You seen the guides on detailing word by dave KG?

Chris - RB paint is rock hard. Had to use rotary in the end on the one I worked on.

PS. Make sure you get your wash technique right and get some good drying towels, and then treat the drying towels better than you treat your car. next time you come to machine polishing it in a years time itll have minimal swirls if youve looked after it and will save you time when polishing.

 

[lucky13]

Yes read the guides and infact just re read them tonight as I'm thinking of buying this evening. Going to go with the das 6 pro I think. I appreciate you can't recommend certain combonations of pads and polishes as there are far to many variables. From reading upi think I understand this well to be able to work it out. What I'm more worried about is my Initial selection of pads and polishes. I don't want to buy a kit and find that I can't actually correct very well with it!


http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/polis...ion-polisher-menzerna-intro-kit/prod_720.html

Any opinions on this as a start? Probably would look at getting hex pads after but as a start would this be of any use to me? (mainly for improving/ complete removal of swirls)

 

[Cliotoby]

Pro has a bit more torque I think so that would be my choice.

You cant go wrong with Sonus SFX pads and menz polish combo so that would be my bet to start with, in fact I would choose that over anything else to start with because it just works so well.

My first kit was a G220 (the das6 wasnt out then) with SFX/Menz polish and it was fantastic. Im sure That combo you posted will also be very good but ive never used the pads.

Hexlogic pads are also excellent on the DA. I find the Green polishing pad the best for a single stage solution on my own car, but you get multiple grades of pad in the full set so theres plenty to choose from.

Im currently rocking Lake Country Constant pressure for the rotary and have been for a while now.

Dont forget your discount code.

CLIOSPORT05

 

[lucky13]

Thanks for the help mate that's great! From different reviews I have read it seemed like the best kit to start and you have furer confirmed this. You just mentioned the green pad which I had seen popped up as the best option as a all rounder so think I will get that too!

Is that discount code for clean your car? If so never new about that!?

 

[lucky13]

Just wrote it in and it works! Bought a nice big microfiber towel as well to add to the collection and some 3m tape. Thanks for your advice, saved me £8 as well! Will probably try it out at the weekend providing its here.

Once again many thanks for the advice

 

[Cliotoby]

No problem. Any more q's just ask away Im sure someone will help you out if I dont

If you want to see how it works then just start with the bonnet that way you've not committed yourself to the full car.

I assume youve bought clay? Give it a f**king good claying before you polish using shampoo and water as lube, like clay one area then run your fingers over it to see if its still rough, if it is then clay the area again, itll save your pads when polishing, give you better results and make whatever wax or sealant you put on top last longer. Also some Carpro eraser to remove polishing oils if you've got the cash.

 

[lucky13]

Thank you. Yes I bought some bilthamber last week. Not used clay before but I was fed up with the car looking ok but feeling like a sandpit especially on the side skirts. Can't believe how smooth it is now and how it's given it such a glassy / shiny look.

One last question then. Just this weekend I have put AG Srp followed by AG EGP on the car. When I come to polish can I do it striaght off or do I need to remove this? I have no products officially for removing this stuff but have seen although its not ideal fairy liquid can do it? Do I even need to remove it anyway?

Thanks

 

[Cliotoby]

Machine polishing will remove any protection like that and leave you with near perfectly clean paint so dont worry about it just give it a wash and crack on with the polishing.

Id invest in something a little more durable than EGP also

 

[PBCup]

I have both and never use the DA. Just can't be bothered with it. You get better results with a cleaner fluid and a finishing pad and a cheap rotary than you can with 3 compounds 3 pads and a DA. Plus even if you go silly on the cost of the compound like I did and buy Swissvax Cleaner Fluid Pro for £70 its still considerably cheaper for the same type of finish than going the DA way. Plus what I use is safe because its a very light compund so easy to manage the heat.

Loads of companies do demo days. Have a look on google for detailing companies and see when the next one is. I can recommend Swissvax in Knaresborough and Noth East Detailing in Chester-le-street although I'm not sure they are still going but Swissvax certainly are.

 

[Cliotoby]

DA is fine on most clio paint. Im sure BG is not rock hard.

 

[JD]

It's not.

 

[Clart]

As a n00b looking to remove swirls and generally tidy the paintwork up should i be looking at something like this rather than a DAS-6 for example?

http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/polis...ct-rotary-polisher-menzerna-kit/prod_875.html

 

[JD]

That's a rotary, Clart - and that one has been replaced by the better 801 machine.

It depends on your outlook. If you are confident in your abilities, and know what to look out for and have a paint depth gauge, it's a great machine. If you are, as you say, a newb, I'd go for the DAS6 Pro.

 

[lucky13]

I see your point a bout da being sslower but as others have said it seems the paint won't be rock hard hopefully. I think I'm happy with the da purchase either way as I think it's a good learner tool where I can get the routine all right and some basic dos and donts with something where if I do make a mistake it will have minimal consequences.

I will be looking for a rotary in the future indeed as I understand it's the better option overall for correction / finishing

About the EGP. I thought it would be best as its on top of SRP and was going to get autoglym hd wax but it was double and more e price and I was under the impression being a wax it wouldn't last as long? Any recommendations for anything that works well and lasts a long time?

 

[Cliotoby]

EGP was the first sealant I used. Its piss easy to use, but lasts about two washes.

Ive heard mixed opinions about HD wax but I can see the problem with it myself. Itll last a lot longer than EGP though.

Its entirely up to you what you buy, certain ones should be avoided - Colly 476s is durable as f**k but its also cloudy (I dont care what anyone says ive been through an entire tub of it), liquid waxes are generally crap and dont last long. I dont really rate Dodo Juice waxes either.

Generally they all look the same and youre paying for water behaviour and durability. The higher end waxes like Zymol Carbon/Glasur will be much nicer to use but that doesn't necessarily mean theyre going to be any better than a £20 tin of FinishKare.

FK1000p is a good budget sealant, lasts agers and can be used on wheels and door shuts to good effect.
FK2685 "Pink" Is like 1000p, only I believe its carnuba based, durability isnt as good as FK but its still decent. Will be ideal for someone on a budget that wants good results and is fine with waxing the car every 3-4 washes in order to retain water behavior and gloss. I really like FK pink.

Vics red is probably one of the best looking waxes going but I find the water behavior a bit poor and it doesn't last long.

Zymol are obviously more expensive. Carbon is great and is my favorite wax - smells good, looks good, easy to use, I get loads of applications out of a pot and lasts about 4 months. I also own Glasur but I never use it on my own car. Mainly because Mine sees wax once a month and I dont really see THAT much difference between Carbon and Glasur except for durability......

Loads more that are great. Name a few you think youd consider and someone will let you know what its like.

 

[lucky13]

Hmm wow I'm surprised that AG Hd should out last EGP. Is it not the case that a sealant will outlast a wax all the Time then?

Im not sure If I fully get what is best to look for in a sealant/ wax. My impression was that this last stage helps to lock in any fillers used or whatnot such as SRP or a glaze. I'm guessing it also means dirt is easier to get off on the next wash but I can't be sure of that. You mentioned water behaviour, apart from the fact it looks kinda cool does it mean much? I would have thought good tight beading would help reduce streaky marks and help slightly with dirt being flung back off the paintwork?

About things I would consider. I have heard a lot about z2 or something like that? I was reading about that guy who is obsessed with detiailing. Dont think he's on here just saw a link to it. He's got the white nurburgring Vxr. He mentioned z2 a lot I think it was and guessed as he seem to be very much into it this product must have something special about it.

The other I see a it about is jet seal? Heard is is very durable. Any thoughts to this?

Thanks

 

[Cliotoby]

Lol oh yer him.

Jetseal is a bit expensive for what it is but its not bad, wouldn't put it above FK1000p.

Zaino is good. I liked the Z5 with ZFX polish but again, expensive. AIO is good and its a good paintwork cleaner too. Not used Z2. Z8 is a great QD but again, expensive.

A wax or sealant is a last stage product to, as you put it, lock in your work. It also adds gloss and brings out the flake, and adds a durable water repellant film. Stays cleaner for longer, makes drying and washing easier.

Water behavior is not really important - So long as it sheets water to make drying easier. Beading is not important, although its nice to look at and I always prefer to use products that bead well.

Carbon:

FK1000p

 

[lucky13]

Looked up further into the fk1000. Looks like some good stuff so will order some up soon! Think I will go for the non pink version as I want something that lasts as long as possible.

And yeah that's the one. Have to say that photo in the article did make me laugh haha, especially when I read why they were doing it...

Anyway thanks Toby you have been a great help to my seemingly endles questions!

Thanks again

 

[JD]

He's a dirty student. Loadsa time on his hands!

 

[Cliotoby]

He's a dirty student. Loadsa time on his hands!

Not anymore, jew egg.

 

[lucky13]

Hey I was a student only last year!

so the stuff came today. Had a quick go is evening. Cleaned up the bonnet first even though it was already pretty clean since its weekend clean, Srp EGP etc.

Dried it off then used the 3m tape stuff to section a smallish square of maybe 15 inch by 15. Started with then final finish 3000 menzerna on the finishing pad. Put the polisher at speed 1-2 and quickly spread th polish over the area. Then sped it up to 4 and slowly moved tthe polisher over the area. After maybe 3 or so passes like this I put it on full speed 6 then slowly did another 3 passes or so. Polish looked pretty well worked in although when stopping the machine some polish seemed to be left in that area. Bit to much polish possibly? Anyway after cleaning this up with a MF and some QD it looked maybe a little better but the sswirls were still all over it. As I expected to be honest. Anyway I worked my way up. Changed to the power finish 2500 polish on the finishing pad. Still not much.

Basically I worked up until I was using power finish 2500 on the compunding pad. I hope this isn't to abrasive? Didnt cause any problems anyway. Paintwork is now noticeably better interns of swirls. Was hard to tell as I only had my phone torch which is not ideal at all so should probably inest in some sort of swirl light thing.

I also did a run of final finish with the finishing pad to really gloss up the paintwork. Seemed to help but not sure if this is a needed step? As said I was just having a play in this small square. I got pretty good results although with my crap torch can't be 100% sure.

My main question here is how abrasive is the power finish 2500? Especially with the compunding pad? Hope it wasn't too much as I maybe need more? Also saying that I gather technique is very important which I shall be looking even further into tonight. Hopefully should all fit into place abit better now I have had chance to have a quick go and understand things better. I put a mark on my backing plate and was making sure it was spinning as opposed to vibrating. I was mainly unsure on pressure. I heard you need about 15 lbs or so of it but I wasn't to sure in gauging that!

Anyway any help with the technique troubles and how abrasive actually is the stuff I'm using would be great!

Thanks guys

 

[Yellow Dave]

typically for a beginner I wouldn't recommend going much harsher than the PF2500, with the right pad this can be quite an aggressive combo. I've managed to remove heavy swirling and wet sanding marks with 3.02 ( a version of PF2500) and a green and orange hex pads (heavy polish and light cutting pads respectively), and my technique is fairly poor, mildly average on a good day.

Keep practising your technique with the DA as it sounds like you're heading in the right direction.

 

[chris_p]

Keep at it mate. My first attempt was equally underwhelming!

I apply quite a lot of pressure these days, was far too timid at the start, you'll struggle to do damage with a Da IMO. When the note of the machine changes, you're probably about right.


Use the zenith technique, works wonders http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7708


I use 3.02 on hex green pad on BMW paint, you shouldn't need anything more.