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saxo VTR and 172

Ok, i used to own a saxo vtr and 2 of my mates currently have the vtr. When i am in their cars as a passenger they "feel" fast, and i mean faster than mine (up to 60). However, when i was leaving work the other day, one of my mates was behind me so i went for it, and he ended up miles behind. He later said that he was hammering it, and all he had his eyes on was the rev counter and me, and he said that i destroyed him. But, he also thinks that his car "feels" faster than mine (he has been in mine many times). Waht is this all about?


  Shiny red R32

Possibly something to do with sitting quite a bit lower in the Saxo than in the 172. My friends 106 GTi is the same, only in that you sit about two inches off the ground!

being a passenger in someone elses car who is flooring it, u arent expecting the acceleration, where as the driver is, so it prbably just seems its quicker, but if u were driving his car, maybe ud think his car aint as quick.?


  Shiny red R32


The 106 GTi that I am talking about IS QUICK - VERY QUICK having been sorted by Peugeot Ecosse who are not far from me.

Have you heard of them in Jersey?
  BMW 320d Sport

Yeah definitely being a passenger feels quicker, theres no doubt about it in my mind. When youre driving you know when youre gonna feel the acceleration and youre used to it plus youve got the steering wheel to brace yourself with. I dont know about Saxos but assuming that theyve not got quite as refined a ride as the 172 (just a guess) that could be it. I bet a Bentley Turbo R doesnt feel as quick as an XR3i, just cos its smooth and higher off the ground.

A VTR being an 8V will have, what feels like better pull low down, however when you get over that you realise that the revs are building slowly. The same thing applies to my old mans Golf TDi, hell it would destroy a VTR!!


  Shiny red R32


Is it as wet over your side of the Forth as it is over here tonight?

It sounds very wet and windy outside.


Yeah GR, it was pretty terrible last night!

Nice today though, think a good clean and a wax is the order of the day.....might as well wash the car as well!:eek:

Being low is a big speed thing. My mate has a Mini (car) and it seems to be shooting along and we are only at 30. When I got in a "normal" car it feels really slow at 30. But on the passenger front, dont forget when you drive you subconsiosly brace or tense when you accelerate or go round a corner. When your in the passenger seat you just flop about and then tense or brace.


Sorry guys, but its not anything to do with 8 or 16 valves etc.. a 16v lump can have oodles more torque low down than an eight valve.

what the mind tends to base the figure on is acceleration felt in the small of the back and time..

Question ?..So, you may ask, surely a car that feels to give more g is faster...

answer... not really no...;). a flat torque curve and linear bhp means a LOWER peak g reading (the kick in the back you feel) than a car with a NON flat torque curve and peaky power delivery..

The quickness is all about sustained g over a time given period, hence, acceleration. But a car that can deliver a peak for a short time only feels faster.

Thats also why the CTR feels wickedly fast (and indeed, it DOES accelerate faster in a NARROW rev range as opposed to lower peak over a longer rev range !).. but when compared to, say, a 172, there is nothing in it...

and, of course, yes, the lack of control causes a greater awareness of this.. and as GR said, position relative to view is very important.....


  Shiny red R32


I am so glad that you are back explaining everything to us in the infamous Slarty way!

In my experience with 8-Valve cars they all have tended to be better on the uptake! They were an old Mk1 Golf Gti and a 2.0 Laguna, always seemed nippy pulling away at 20MPH in second say, where the equivalent 16V engine wouldnt be as responsive.

Wasnt the jist of your explanation already summed up earlier?


  Shiny red R32


Why have you still only got one (y)

I thought you were joining, so that you too can have two (y) (y)


Thats right- just as acceleration in a motorbike is more pronounced because of the position relative to view factor, also due to the weight mostly though. Just like a small hatch will seem quicker than a massive 7 series beemer with the same acceleration times.
  CTR EK9 turbo

also its linked to suspension. If you have boaty/warn suspension at the back (for example saxo probably has torsion beam, does it?) when you boot the throttle, the weight of the car is shifted to the rear making it boat down at the back, therefore the people in the car are being pulled to the ground by g-force too! my scirocco was so boaty it felt quite quick! but the nose used to rise into the air as if it was taking off! looked really funny actually. You see a lot of Novas doing this and thats probably why the drivers/passengers think they feel quick.