Smashed the Cup

George16v · Oct 23, 2003

Unfortunately I have written off my Cup;

http://www.boltlightning.co.uk/article_read.asp?id=122 http://www.boltlightning.co.uk/article_read.asp?id=122

Just thought you guys should know that I was doing 50 behind a Vauxhall Zafira (mpv) and the back end just went. Think it could be an electrical fault and something went as been having lots of trouble with wheel grinding noises and the car has only done 4000 miles.

However main concern was that the airbags did not go off and as you can see from the pix they should have.

So just a post to mainly say I am well upset and GET YOUR AIRBAGS CHECKED OUT!

RobFenn · Oct 23, 2003

erm..sue renault?

At least your ok mate!

-Rob

telford_mike · Oct 23, 2003

Sorry to hear that - main thing is youre ok.

jon_r · Oct 23, 2003

Glad your OK, and certainly get in contact with Reno.

David · Oct 23, 2003

Im so sorry to hear that mate, only £4000 miles! Hope insurance pays out ok. Im feeling ur pain, cant imagine having to deal with that. Glad ur alright but the car!!!! Anything salvageable...?? dont wanna be harsh but ill buy your interior if u getting rid..cash might come in handy for ya. Soz dude.

~David~

unofficialPete · Oct 23, 2003

Quote: Originally posted by RobFenn on 23 October 2003

erm..sue renault?

At least your ok mate!

-Rob

Yeah been thinking the same, what have they had to say?

Dust · Oct 23, 2003

sorry to hear that dude. Id be so upset...feeling for ya b.time. Robs got the right idea...get on the phone straight away to your lawyers. They would love a case like this...especially when renault claim their cars are 4/5*...but the fooking airbags dont even work.

Liftnub · Oct 23, 2003

Wasnt someone saying that cups had a faulty brake limiter valve, the bit the changes the braking distribution. Could that have caused the back end to go out?

Roamer · Oct 23, 2003

George, thank goodness youre ok mate, get onto Renault, it is your only course of action, and make sure they investigate before it gets taken away and scrapped or repaired mate.

Yup, sounds like the brake limiter valve problem, this deserves a recall - quick, or they are going to be sued be alot of people in the future, but of course in their mind it comes down to how much a recall would cost them in total compared to the amount they will have to pay out to people in law suits - and alot of the time it turns out they are better leaving it and waiting to be sued

Tom_16v · Oct 23, 2003

Gutted mate!

king.stromba · Oct 23, 2003

Air bags dont do much anyway, they were invented for the USA market because ppl there dont wear seat belt as often, and in some states its not law. If your wearing a seat belt an airbag is pretty useless.

McShug · Oct 23, 2003

Gutted for you m8

, glad you are ok though.

Found this Pic and it does not look as if the airbags worked here too. What do you have to do to get them to work?

http://erc.qmuc.ac.uk/Cliosport/Gallery/Full/1066917351__cup2.jpg

http://erc.qmuc.ac.uk/Cliosport/Gallery/Full/1066917471__cup.jpg

http://erc.qmuc.ac.uk/Cliosport/Gallery/Full/1066917570__cup3.jpg

Cuppy 172 · Oct 23, 2003

I hope this accident is down to renault, but in my opinon its does not seem the case. Reason is Ive had the limiter valve replaced and you do not get the back end out if you are just driving along for no apperent reason. But if you where braking heavily you can feel the backend snaking all over the fcuking place. (the part that is causing the problem is a small spring about 2 inches high, not electrical)

Hope this hepls, trust me all other cup owners you will know when the spring is missing, I just hope you find out a low speeds

(usually happens around 10K from what I have heard)

TheCake · Oct 23, 2003

George, as you already know mate, hope you get better soon mate. Must meet up again soon.

Si.

Hippychick · Oct 23, 2003

Quote: Originally posted by Roamer on 23 October 2003

George, thank goodness youre ok mate, get onto Renault, it is your only course of action, and make sure they investigate before it gets taken away and scrapped or repaired mate.

Yup, sounds like the brake limiter valve problem, this deserves a recall - quick, or they are going to be sued be alot of people in the future, but of course in their mind it comes down to how much a recall would cost them in total compared to the amount they will have to pay out to people in law suits - and alot of the time it turns out they are better leaving it and waiting to be sued

Is this just a problem with the Cup ???

You know my history as far a brakes go ??????

Cuppy 172 · Oct 23, 2003

Hi Hippchick,

I dont know your history, but I gather you have had big problems with breaks etc. What I am lead to believe from the dealer is that the cup has this limiter valve because it has no ABS, he may be taking out of his rear but no other 172 with ABS have had this trouble as far as I am aware.

Relax and chill

Scudetto · Oct 23, 2003

under emergency braking at say 80mph, my non-cup 172 snakes like a bastardo at the back.

g

Cuppy 172 · Oct 23, 2003

Get it checked mate

rt172 · Oct 23, 2003

Scudetto, def. get it check. My MK2 did what you are talking about, but my mk1 is absolutely rock solid. I can stand on the brake pedal hard at 100mph and the car just stops. No squirming or starting to move sideways like my mk2.

KDF · Oct 23, 2003

Quote: Originally posted by Scudetto on 23 October 2003

under emergency braking at say 80mph, my non-cup 172 snakes like a bastardo at the back.

g

really ? I havent had any problems, I did an emergency stop at ~70mph on a deserted road just to test the abs in the wet.

I was VERY impressed, it took a hell of a lot less distance to stop than I was expecting, the abs kicked in like a b**ch doing its job.

ps. Soz to hear about your accident, you should let the police/whoever know that you believe it was a mechanical/electrical falure and get the to investigate.

D-CUP · Oct 23, 2003

Can you tell us more about the circumstances of the accident? If it was a case of the back end just went then that is very serious and you should contact Renault immediately as well as a lawyer.

paulous2k · Oct 23, 2003

Has anyone got a photo of this myserious spring on the brake? Just checked under my brand new Cup and cant see any spring on the rear brakes!

BigBoreBri · Oct 23, 2003

The back end of my old 172 "just went"... tho i wasnt doing 50 at the time

D-CUP · Oct 23, 2003

Regarding airbags. I think they only go off if there is a danger of your face hitting the wheel. In those pics neither car looks as though the front has been pushed in that much.

JonC · Oct 23, 2003

The back end does get a bit skittish on 172s when braking hard, however, Ive found that since the eibachs things are a lot better. I feel it was a mistake on Renaults part for not including ABS as standard on Cups. Many people have reported locked brakes and skidding and more than a few have ended up with more than a ding. Perhaps renault should take a leaf out of Hondas book and offer advanced tuition as part of the package.

(at least I think it was Honda that offered tuition with the CTR?)

sammy · Oct 23, 2003

I feel for you, I really do!

Glad youre ok though!

George16v · Oct 24, 2003

Well guys thanks for all your support. I did contact renault and were just trying to continuously fob me off to diff. people. I have had the brake limiter changed but I was getting grinding noises when accelerateing hard in 1st but they told me it was not a safety issue but was the wheels rubbing or something (b****cks). Anyway My dadis a solicitor but is on holiday, tell you when he gets back we will surely f**k them over.

D-CUP · Oct 24, 2003

You still havent told us what caused the back end to step out. Was it raining? Did you break heavily? Where you cornering?

Scudetto · Oct 24, 2003

hmmm. I will do some brake testing this weekend. I think when i said snake, i really meant squirm. I can accept squirm, but not snake. I try it this weekend just to be clear in my head which it really is.

g

Scud Missile · Oct 24, 2003

Quote: Originally posted by George16v on 24 October 2003

Well guys thanks for all your support. I did contact renault and were just trying to continuously fob me off to diff. people. I have had the brake limiter changed but I was getting grinding noises when accelerateing hard in 1st but they told me it was not a safety issue but was the wheels rubbing or something (b****cks). Anyway My dadis a solicitor but is on holiday, tell you when he gets back we will surely f**k them over.

Sorry to hear of your accident - hope things get sorted for you.

Not sure how you will **** over Renault. Youll have to prove causation - who/what/why caused the accident, liability - who is liable for the accident and quantum - what is your loss- perhaps the loss between the true value and what the insurers pay - a few hundred pounds maybe a grand. Were you injured? You may get something for that too.

But Renault aint going to roll over and admit liability!

Scudetto · Oct 24, 2003

we cant have a Scudetto and Scud Missile!

)

thats outrageous!

g

Scud Missile · Oct 24, 2003

Quote: Originally posted by Scudetto on 24 October 2003

we cant have a Scudetto and Scud Missile! )

thats outrageous!

g

Lol - sorry about that mate! Your post count will easily identify you though

George16v · Oct 24, 2003

Guys I did not brake was going about 50mph and there was a Vauxhall zafira in front so obviously can out corner that. The car litterally carried on going straight on with no cornering. Thought it may be that the power steering went or the rack or something. Rack would explain grinding. But the garage said they cant prrove that because the rack is f**ked now anyway.

So basically have to go for airbags. My two passengers have heavy bruising from whiplass and the seatbelts so will get them for that. I have just had a stiff neck all week.

Also bit worried about payout from insurance. Basically the garage has said it will cost 9800 to fix so it is not economically fixable, so basically a write off. Well worried though because I have only had the car for 3 months and paid 12k for it. Now I know the insurance quote the claim price from there version of the glasses guide and in there it says my car is worth 9860 with 12k on the clock, but mine has only got 4k, Still I will be losing about 3000 in 3 months at this rate with my excess on top.

Oh so depressed - Need a new car asap to take my mind off it all!

Thinking of Audi A41.8T or BMW 318S Coupe if anyone has any ideas.

Scud Missile · Oct 24, 2003

I would have thought your passengers would have a better chance of recovering damages if they sued you.

Cant see Renault admitting any liability and as youve got the insurance then your passengers could claim damages from you/your insurer.

Of course your insurers may then decide to recover their losses from Renault if they think that its worth a go.

Sorry - dont want to depress you even more but I reckon you would have a big fight with Renault if you claimed against them.

JonC · Oct 24, 2003

I had similar problems with the insurance company. Basically look through autotrader to find comparible cars on price and condition. Dont accept the insurance companys first offer. Use the proof from autotrade illustrating how much these car go for. They will eventually give in. I was in the same situation, they offered £11000 and with evidence got a payout of £12400.

Scud Missile · Oct 24, 2003

Quote: Originally posted by JonC on 23 October 2003

The back end does get a bit skittish on 172s when braking hard, however, Ive found that since the eibachs things are a lot better. I feel it was a mistake on Renaults part for not including ABS as standard on Cups. Many people have reported locked brakes and skidding and more than a few have ended up with more than a ding. Perhaps renault should take a leaf out of Hondas book and offer advanced tuition as part of the package.

(at least I think it was Honda that offered tuition with the CTR?)

Yep it was Honda - with every new Type R the driver got a full days course with an ex police instructor. Excellent stuff - had mine in May of this year.

Scudetto · Oct 24, 2003

george, i think you are barking up the wrong tree with the airbags - judging by the pics, theres just not sufficient deformation/deceleration for the sensors to trigger them. The softer parts of the car (bumper front wing) seem to have taken the impact, while the hard parts (crunch zone) seems barely affected. It the deformation of the crunch zone and the amount of deceleration that affects the decision to trigger the bags. Its a grey area im afraid, mate. IMHO, of course.

g

D-CUP · Oct 24, 2003

Yeah, dont think you have any chance with the airbags thing. Airbags wouldnt have stopped the injuries your passenger got. They need a very heavy impact where the deformation would be enough to cause head/face injuries

It sounds like something went at the front of the car - which as you say has been badly damged and may prove hard to demonstrate. Although a good expert may be able to tell if something broke before the crash impact.

Roamer · Oct 24, 2003

As for the insurance George - when you took out the policy was it stipulated about them doing a new for old replacment in the first year (when the car is under one year old) cos mine did, piece of mind if something did happen - check it and see, I think most are like that now-a-days.

George16v · Oct 24, 2003

Guys the airbags would ofcourse helped. The guy sitting in the front passenger seat had a massive bruise on the front of his head (ouch). Anyway only going on what the guy at the garage said. Anyway come on habing a head - on crash at 55mph, I would expect the airbags to come whether it be 55 or 20.

Smashed the Cup

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