Spherical bearings

[Space Cadet]

Mr Faulks will soon be fitting some spherical bearings to my front wishbones and rear-beam, anyone else fitted these? Happy with them? Any cons?

 

[BIGASH]

He has put some in my car and they have done a great job with them. I haven't driven the car with them yet but will of done by next weekend so I can let you know then

 

[Space Cadet]

Ah, I see you're "Getting TDF'D", I made thatmistake a year ago and the car just keeps going back every few weeks for somemore work....... it's like a drug.

Cool, let me know how the bearings go, are you fitting them front and rear?

 

[Jonny1*2]

Didn't the cup racer run them?

 

[Fred@BTM]

you're letting matt play with a welder, christ!

 

[BIGASH]

Ah, I see you're "Getting TDF'D", I made thatmistake a year ago and the car just keeps going back every few weeks for somemore work....... it's like a drug.

Cool, let me know how the bearings go, are you fitting them front and rear?

Haha yes

Will do mate, We have fitted the fronts and will be doing the rears at some point but I can't remember why we didn't do the while it was getting the other work done!

I don't think the cup racers did but could be wrong

LOL at Fred I don't think Matt did mine himself He sticks to his special wiring an other things that are too technical for my brain!

 

[M4D M4X]

Didn't the cup racer run them?

Yes they did on the front, was the bottom ball joints that bolted to the wishbones not sure on the rear beam.

 

[mikekean]

Rear beam was just uprated bushes, im soon going to be fitting pure motorsport wishbone and rear beam rose joint kit to my cup racer. Hope the front bearings last longer than 5 minutes. Still having doubts about fitting the wishbone ones tbh, might just fit poly bushes instead. Rear beam ones should last as there not under too much stress and are more or less out of the line of dirt.

 

[Jonny1*2]

you're letting matt play with a welder, christ!

lol. Presumably it would be Shakey doing it.

 

[Space Cadet]

It’s the Pure wishbone kit that we’re fitting to the front, so will have the stiffening plate and bearings (plus new ball joints and track rod ends). Am going to just have uprated poly bushes on the front anti-roll bar.

The conundrum I’m at is whether to have the Pure rear-beam kit stiffening plates fitted, the bearings (available on their own) can be fitted with the beam in situ no problem, but welding the stiffening plates would mean removing the beam, stripping it and having to bleed the brakes etc, the labour cost is huge.

Is it worth having the stiffening plates welded on?

(I’m not running a rear anti-roll bar as the front-rear balance is fine as it is and I can stiffen the rear shocks up and down depending on track conditions.)

 

[M4D M4X]

As for the rear beam strengthening i've just seen them (didn't know they existed) if you was to get it fitted, looking at the pics you wouldn't be able to fit a ARB on there anyway.
Are you running Coilovers or shocks? Again if you fitted this you might get problems with the coil springs being so close or even touching so you'd have to remove them possibly the coil spring cup.

 

[M4D M4X]

.

 

[Space Cadet]

I have AST Sportline 2 coilovers so the old spring platforms are redundant, from what I gather though these remain as there’s no point removing them and they add a little stiffness/bracing.

As mentioned I’m not running a rear ARB, the rear end is just so ‘adjustable’ as it is with the adjustment on the shocks that I don’t need to make it any twitchier by fitting a rear ARB.

 

[M4D M4X]

Nice, i wanted Ast's so badly before .
Would you even need the spring platforms if you was to fit the strengthen kit? extra unwanted weight and all that, if it was me i'd fit the kit anyway (got to do something).
If you do fit post back and say what it's like maybe someone on here can say.

As for bleeding the brakes it's easy enough to do yourself with a friend. (might be a how to in the technical guide)

Just done my wish list at pure mortorsport at over £500 so roll on the full strip build, just got to wait for the workshop to be fitted with electric and a doors now.

 

[BIGASH]

I think but could be totally wrong, the downside to the rear strengthening kit is that it reduces flex in the rear beam much the same as an ARB does, but where with an ARB if you want that flex back you can just disconnect it. With the PMS kit there is no adjustability although you are getting a much stronger rear beam so as with everything its swings and roundabouts

 

[Space Cadet]

Nice, i wanted Ast's so badly before .
Would you even need the spring platforms if you was to fit the strengthen kit? extra unwanted weight and all that, if it was me i'd fit the kit anyway (got to do something).
If you do fit post back and say what it's like maybe someone on here can say.

As for bleeding the brakes it's easy enough to do yourself with a friend. (might be a how to in the technical guide)

Just done my wish list at pure mortorsport at over £500 so roll on the full strip build, just got to wait for the workshop to be fitted with electric and a doors now.

The Sportline 2’s are fantastic, glad I paid the extra over the Sportline 1’s.

TBH I’m not sure if you keep or remove the spring platforms if you fit the strengthening kit, would be good to tidy the beam up by removing them. Dr Faulks had said to keep them as they’ll provide a little strengthening, but not sure if he knew/knows whether they’d be removed if we fit the kit.

The brakes would have to be bled before I collected the car, so it’d be another £40 or so on top of the huge bill for all the work.

It would be good to remove the rear beam and clean it up and paint it purely for aesthetics and knowing that it’s not rusting away and if we’re going to do this then it’d be worth fitting the strengthening kit at the same time. But as mentioned the bearings can be fitted with the beam in situ so I could just save a few hundred quid and not have the beam painted/strengthened.

I think but could be totally wrong, the downside to the rear strengthening kit is that it reduces flex in the rear beam much the same as an ARB does, but where with an ARB if you want that flex back you can just disconnect it. With the PMS kit there is no adjustability although you are getting a much stronger rear beam so as with everything its swings and roundabouts

Thanks, I’ll have a think then, the rear is fine as it is at the moment and I can dial the shocks up or down depending on conditions. Not sure if I want it any stiffer and therefore tail happy.

 

[Tony Hunter]

We have fitted the rear strengthening kit and was advised not to use the bearing kit with it,as there would be no 'give' at all.
Any sideways impact of any sort would result in the shell being damaged.

The kit is very good,needs a little adjusting here and there,but does take alot of welding,took our guy nearly all day to do it,and got through many many rods doing so.

It would take a brave man to try and do this in situ.

We cut the old spring plates off as they get in the way,but you can mod the kit to fit around them if you are going to use standard springs.

Our only concern is the afore mentioned stiffness,we are hoping it won't be any worse than running an arb or we are stuffed, and will have to rethink our set up (once again).

Pic in build thread somewhere,I'll try and find it.

 

[Space Cadet]

Thanks Tony. I’m definitely going for the bearing kit as I want to replace the 10 year old original bushes and rather than fit poly bushes might as well fit the bearings as we’re also doing the fronts.

Matt has already advised of the potential for damage if I have a sidewise ‘off’ with the bearings so may be the strengthening kit as well is a definite no-no.

Perhaps I’ll leave the strengthening kit then and just have the beam cleaned up and painted which was my main ambition. If I ever get to a point where I’d like the rear stiffer I could always fit an adjustable rear ARB.

Would be good to see a picture if you can find one.

 

[Tony Hunter]

 

[Space Cadet]

Thanks Tony

 

[Space Cadet]

Quick update – having spoken with Nick at Pure we (Matt) are going to fit the rear-beam strengthening kit as well as the rear spherical bearings, apparently there is no problem fitting both and the strengthening kit is approximately half as stiff as if fitting a rear ARB.

I don’t desperately need the rear beam any stiffer, but while it’s off and being cleaned-up and painted we might as well fit the strengthening kit and be done with it as I’m unlikely to ever fit a rear ARB.

Am dropping the car of on the 4[SUP]th[/SUP] and collecting it on the 18[SUP]th[/SUP] so will let you know how it all feels. Wont be out on track until March 14[SUP]th[/SUP] so will update properly then.

 

[Tony Hunter]

Ok,good luck.

We were just advised differently that's all. Be interesting to see how you get on with it all.

 

[Space Cadet]

I think perhaps the differing circumstances/advice might be that you’re racing your car and are perhaps therefore more likely to have a side impact, whereas I’m only tracking mine and touch-wood wont have any side impacts. If I do I think with the bearings as well as the strengthening plates it could bend the chassis, but that’s a risk I’m willing to take.

 

[Tony Hunter]

I agree, you will be less likely to have an impact. Should be good.

 

[Fred@BTM]

your series is too polite to have impacts Tony

 

[markfishy]

That is a very substantial mod to the axle. Looks good.
I found when running the clio cup racers in 2001 we had very strange oversteer in extreme conditions on slicks. this was almost definetely down to rear axle flex.
the rear axle was on nylon and alloy bushes which stopped any flex in the axle bushes from the standard car.

What problems are you experiencing with the cars, to need to go to all this expense?

ASTs in my opinion are very good and we have fitted several sets to 172/182 and 197.
The extra support to the damper lower bolt is worth having, in the weld kit. As this is now taking the weight of the car and more with centralfugal loads etc. I guess the centre part of the axle will still flex a bit but the car will be more Knife edge with everything tied down, may need a change of driving style to get the best out of it.

All front wishbone poly bushes i have fitted give no extra stiffness over the standard oe bushes.Some are worse, so sperical would be the only worth while change.
Sales pitch: dont foget good set up and corner weights to get the best out of it all.
regards mark fish motorsport.

 

[Fred@BTM]

has AST fixed the issue on the rear dampers yet Mark? IE the damper coming away from the lower bush?

 

[markfishy]

has AST fixed the issue on the rear dampers yet Mark? IE the damper coming away from the lower bush?

I have not seen that one, how often does it happen Fred? Same car?

 

[Fred@BTM]

seen 3 or 4 sets do it now, we've had to machine up some BIG spacers as an extra satefy margin just in case, they could do with better lower bushes IMO

 

[Tony Hunter]

has AST fixed the issue on the rear dampers yet Mark? IE the damper coming away from the lower bush?

We have never had any issues with ours at all Fred.

 

[Space Cadet]

I agree, you will be less likely to have an impact. Should be good.

Touch wood!! Thanks Tony, looking forward to collecting the car and seeing what a difference it all makes. Will report back after the 18[SUP]th[/SUP].

That is a very substantial mod to the axle. Looks good.
I found when running the clio cup racers in 2001 we had very strange oversteer in extreme conditions on slicks. this was almost definetely down to rear axle flex.
the rear axle was on nylon and alloy bushes which stopped any flex in the axle bushes from the standard car.

What problems are you experiencing with the cars, to need to go to all this expense?

ASTs in my opinion are very good and we have fitted several sets to 172/182 and 197.
The extra support to the damper lower bolt is worth having, in the weld kit. As this is now taking the weight of the car and more with centralfugal loads etc. I guess the centre part of the axle will still flex a bit but the car will be more Knife edge with everything tied down, may need a change of driving style to get the best out of it.

All front wishbone poly bushes i have fitted give no extra stiffness over the standard oe bushes.Some are worse, so sperical would be the only worth while change.
Sales pitch: dont foget good set up and corner weights to get the best out of it all.
regards mark fish motorsport.

The main reason I’m doing all this is that the car has 10 year old rubber bushes and each time we drop and raise the car after setting up the geo it is out.

Rather than replacing with uprated poly-bushes I might as well go the whole hog and fit spherical bearings. And while the wishbones and rear-beam are off we might as well clean them up and likewise fit the strengthening plates.

The geo will be set up by Matt and will be corner-weighted so no problems there.

 

[Space Cadet]

Courtesy of Mr Faulks, picture of strengthened wishbones and rear-beam, they were Tig-welded and powder-coated in a flexible paint so should be ok on the ARB.

 

[BIGASH]

That is awesome

 

[frenchthing]

I was having a quick look under the car today.. the finished articles look very very good.. and bloody bright!! Lol

 

[Tony Hunter]

Got a neon under there?

 

[shiftspark]

View attachment 72063Courtesy of Mr Faulks, picture of strengthened wishbones and rear-beam, they were Tig-welded and powder-coated in a flexible paint so should be ok on the ARB.

Look very nice , will your car still be there on monday ?

 

[Tony Hunter]

If it's there Sat, I'll be having a poke around it,(with sunglasses lol)

 

[Space Cadet]

That is awesome

Ha ha, thanks James – thought you’d like it.

I was having a quick look under the car today.. the finished articles look very very good.. and bloody bright!! Lol

Thanks mate, its definitely coming along.

Got a neon under there?

….what a great idea would just have to get some to compliment the orange….

Look very nice , will your car still be there on monday ?

Yes, its actually now going to be there until sometime next week as I’ve decided to have new front bearings fitted and while the uprights are off they’re now going to be blasted and powder-coated….. orange!! Plus possibly a couple of other bits....

If it's there Sat, I'll be having a poke around it,(with sunglasses lol)

Hi Tony, yes definitely take some eye protection!

(As I’ve probably said before, we had to choose a color for the powder-coat, be it black or whatever, I just thought the orange was a bit of fun. The car itself is fairly subtle inside and out.)

 

[BIGASH]

Mark I ended up going back to the workshop last night after Donington and all I can say is it looks incredible! The quality of the paint finish is incredible, I have never seen powder coated parts look so good! If you haven't already seen it I can imagine you will be over the moon with it!

Edit: PS the welding is also awesome

 

[Space Cadet]

Mark I ended up going back to the workshop last night after Donington and all I can say is it looks incredible! The quality of the paint finish is incredible, I have never seen powder coated parts look so good! If you haven't already seen it I can imagine you will be over the moon with it!

Edit: PS the welding is also awesome

Thanks James, am waiting on Matt to send me a few pictures of the other bits we might have cleaned-up/powdered at the same time as the uprights, looking forward to picking it up later this week. Did you get a chance to look around the car?