Starting Fault.

[loggyboy]

Bought a non running (timing belt failure) Clio 172 2002 phase 2.
Engine has been rebuilt (new valves etc), new belts and timing done using correct tools (TDC pin, camlock and pulley lock) and torqued to correct values with new bolts/nuts where recommended etc etc.

When I turn the key one notch at a time the STOP signal remains and it wont turn over.
When I turn the key quickly to start, the car turns over for a few seconds but wont fire, after a second or 2 of trying the starter stops. (I assume by turning the key quickly this is bipassing the ECU system checks, which allows it to turn over, before the ECU tells it to stop.)
I dont beleive its getting fuel or spark so I am assuming its an electrical/system fault.
I swapped the TDC with my other 172 (same age) and there is no change.
Is there any other swappable items/sensors I can try off my other 172 before I bite the bullet and tow it down to Renault?

Thanks, Dave.

 

[loggyboy]

OK, swapped ecu/uch/key, tried the coilpack . Its defo none of those.

Gonna have to recheck the timing

 

[MicKPM]

So the car has had a top end rebuild - did you carry out a compression test before getting it all back together to make sure the cylinder head and the new valves were operating correctly? Timing may be out slightly if the engine has been turning over without inteference but, that wouldn't stop it from starting as it would still fire up only run a little off - This is why a compression test is required to confirm the basic functionality of the engine is right.

Electrical items - Jump the main circuit to the main control relay to rule out a fault here. can you hear the fuel pump prime when you turn the key on? The starter motor turning over for a few seconds then cutting out sounds like either an earth issue or a connection fault with the solenoid live. Check the spade connector has a good connection and that the terminals are clean.

Mick

 

[Sean6545]

Im guessing the immobiliser light comes on and doesnt go out?

 

[loggyboy]

Im pretty sure the timing is ok, even if its not, the fault appears to be electrical as the car is not getting fuel or sparking. The pump doesnt prime, fuel hose on rail is empty (I did supply 12v directly to the pump to ensure it is working. I test spark by removing lead and attemted to earth out the feed from the dispac which showed no signs of life.
Imobiliser light stops flashing (i think it goes on permanantly). When I swapped the ECU/UCH etc from my other 172 i tried the car without the correct keyfob first and light remained flashing, and the car would not turn over at all, but when I switched fobs, the light stoped flasshing car would turn over (allthough only for a few seconds as described in my top post).

I didnt do a commpression test, however the head was rebult by a reputable company and looked absolutely spot on when installed (all 16v's replaced)

My brother recalled that when towing the car back from where I bought it, that the speedo did not work (Ign was on), would this confuse the ECU and stop it from starting?

 

[loggyboy]

I will check the starter connections but im pretty sure its the ECU thats cutting the starter signal, as when I let the car go thru its 'checks' when turning the ignition on stage by stage, it wont turn over at all.

 

[Sean6545]

A solid immobiliser light is the fact the ECU is not recieving the immobiliser code. This normally happends when the battery has been dissconected.

Sometimes leaving the ignition turned on for a short while will sort it. Its also worth checking all the fuses and relays for corrosion. Check the engine earth points too, especially the one on top of the gearbox.

 

[loggyboy]

I bought a Diagnoistic Scanner : http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/051-Renault-C...iagnostic_Tools_Equipment&hash=item33679b6694

However this says 'link error' im pretty sure this is the right one for the age of clio (2002 phase 2).

 

[MicKPM]

It should be yes and i'm suprised that your car isn't EODB Compliant but these things do happen. Petrol cars saw various standards start to filter in around 1998 but manufacturers didn't have to comply by law until 2000. Your car is a 2002 and so should be compliant however there is a grey area as some cars, whilst being sold in say 2002, were actually built in 2000-2001 with parts made before the compliance cut-off date.

Send it back under the 14 Day money back promise and spend the cash on taking it to a proper garage or, not that I condone Warez, there are bits of S/W out there that can connect via a VAG-Com KKL lead and do most than that POS will ever do.

Mick

 

[loggyboy]

Well Ive tried the Diagnostic tester on my other clio (of same age) and it worked fine (and a few other cars too!). Ive also tried an earlier OBD (non canbus tester), So im thinking there must be a fault somewhere in the wiring or a elec component that I havent yet tried swapping from the other car.

A solid immobiliser light is the fact the ECU is not recieving the immobiliser code. This normally happends when the battery has been dissconected.
Sometimes leaving the ignition turned on for a short while will sort it. Its also worth checking all the fuses and relays for corrosion. Check the engine earth points too, especially the one on top of the gearbox.

This is a very good point, the red light does stay on, where as on my other clio the light extinguishes completely. I have tried leaving the ign on for a few mins to say if the ecu/imob etc need time to 'link' however this hasnt done anything. I will start swapping relays and earths (allthough I checked alot of the relays and the Gbox earth was checked very early on and its sound).

 

[MicKPM]

Solid Red LED is code recieved.... flashing Red is code not recieved.

 

[loggyboy]

But when I try my other 172 the light goes out?

 

[MicKPM]

Ah right, I didn't read it fully

 

[loggyboy]

So should it stay on? And if not what does it mean!?

 

[loggyboy]

Another update:

All relays and fuses checked and swapped, also swapped the barrel sensor.
What earths are there other than the gearbox?

 

[loggyboy]

Managed to get hold of the Renault diagnostic PDFs, it seems my UCH is not recieving signals it should - so could well be a loom issue. Gonna try swapping the looms - sounds fun!

 

[loggyboy]

It was a simple soultion in the end. After leaving it to get on my other clio for last few weeks, finally had time for some further investigation this morning, it was the gearbox earth (at the rear above the driveshaft) had snapped. I didnt realise the earth was even there, and had only checked the main earthstrap thats closer to the front.

Should be on the road and up for sale within a week or 2... rock on!

 

[jagerbomb]

i have the same problem, i hope mine is going to be a simple fix like this, only other thing is every time i turn ignition on, i have a 30amp fuse blow :-( more investigations tomorrow..........