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Starting out on my own - cleaning cars for money !



TheEvilGiraffe

South East - Essex
ClioSport Area Rep
I've been out of work for about 18 months now, and nothing at all is making me want to get back into an office (if that's even a thing any more).

Since I had my first Clio, some 12 years ago, I've been into cleaning it 'properly' - no yellow sponges, leathers, or sloshing buckets of dirty water over the car post clean (why on earth does anyone do that?!).

I've cleaned a few friends cars for fun, and for a little bit of pocket money over the years, and I'd love to be up there with JimWD and the likes, but that's way way off.

Considering starting my own business doing it, but I'm struggling to price it.

Offering high end services to your regular punter down the street, the sort who take their car to the local ex-petrol station for a scrub by a team of people for £10 in 4 minutes, is going to take some convincing - even though usually people 'get it' once they realise the car is still gleaming a week or two down the line, compared to massive missed patches, and cheap tyre shine slung down the side of the car before getting home.

To start with, I'm mobile, operating out of my car, or my driveway. I'd love to get a unit, and a van, and a load of expensive equipment but that's just simply not feasible.

Offering ceramic sealants or 100% corrections just isn't possible working on the side of the road at someone's place, or on my driveway.

Offering a decent 'safe' wash and some protection, is - however for the 2 hours it would probably take the first time, no one is going to pay me enough to cover my time, materials and overheads such as tax (if/when it takes off etc).

Offering a price list I can throw at people, may not be ideal, because cleaning for example, my own car, which is protected and generally fairly clean, will take a lot less time than a family SUV that's not so much seen a bucket of suds in 6 months, let alone any protection since it left the factory.


I don't know whether to offer fixed price work, 'message me for a quote once i've looked at it', or what...

I'm really struggling to get going with this - as in my head I just can't make ends meet. Washing two to three cars a day, for £15 a go isn't going to cover the cost of fuel and materials, let alone pay my mortgage. Then what happens when it rains ? Bit of an issue in this country :ROFLMAO:


So - do you run a car valet/detailing business ? Or do you/family/friends use a mobile/ independent business ?


Would you be happy to leave your car with a relative stranger ?

Would you expect me to turn up to your house, use your water and electricity, and charge you for my time ?

Would you want more services available through me, such as a wheel refurbishment ?

What would you pay for a 'simple' maintenance wash ? Would you book in every 4-6 weeks, or use a few different companies to try them out ?

Would you be tempted by offers, such as a referral or loyalty scheme ?!


If you have made it this far - thanks for reading !
 

JoePeps

ClioSport Club Member
  M2,XJS,S1000RR
I've just had y car machine polished and sealed by some bloke who's instagram popped up as an ad on my phone. Cost me £200 to have it cleaned, decontaminated, polished single stage and sealed. For me that's good value as I couldn't be arsed to do it myself.
He turned up to my work with a van full of kit and just cracked on for about 5/6 hours.

It's not perfect, but it is a damn sight better than it was and to the man in the street it looks better than new.
 

boultonn

ClioSport Club Member
  S3
Interesting post.
As per my post in the detailing thread, I’ve been struggling wading through the various detailing companies websites in London and seeing a massive gulf in prices and struggling to know what I need but also what the service is like.
what’s the difference between a bloke who will come to my flat in his van and do a ‘premium’ wash for £70, vs taking my car to a workshop for a £350 maintenance detail🤯

It seems to me like you should test the water, build a rep and see what people are asking for in terms of service. Personally, there would be a requirement that whoever came to do my car didn’t need electricity, mains water etc, that they had a van with that kit, or that they could provide a location where they could wash it (although for a decent wash that might an hour or two that does introduce other issues).
Once I’d had a good experience with someone I think I’d be happy paying £30-50 for a regular wash (4-6 weeks?) then maybe up to £100 for a proper detail every few months.
HTH.
 

Amos91

ClioSport Club Member
Tough market now I feel, more saturated than a fast food franchise 😂

Think it will be a real slow burner and you'll need to aim lower in the market to establish yourself.
 
  Looking....
Just my personal experience.
I got into cleaning my car properly like you have explained and thoroughly enjoyed spending the weekend cleaning and improving the cars appearance. As time went on starting experimenting with a range of products and got a buzz with the end results. Done a valeting course with Auto Smart, starting product testing for Auto Finesse (sounds better than it was) and went on to have a 1 to 1 day with a pro detailer on machine polishing. My car never looked so good.
Anyway people started asking and I done a few cars but found that when I was working for someone else I didnt get the same satisfaction as when doing my own car. Working to deadlines, customer expectations, lugging kit about ect took the fun out of it. So I stopped, got the mrs pregnant a couple time and never had the time to do any more since.
Now my youngest starts school In September I'm actually looking forward getting the cars sorted again.
But if you go for it good luck mate.
 

Daniel

ClioSport Moderator
  Whichever has fuel
There isn’t a market for bespoke cleaning. Well there is but not newcomers. Lots of high end cleaners out there and to the masses, it’s a waste of money.

If I was you I’d start out basic. Offer basic services for reasonable money. A wash, vac, polish all the glass and slick the tyres/black the trims, people would pay £60 a pop and you’ll be busy. You ‘might’ average 3 cars a day.
Then, once you’re there get your sales head on and up-sell your services.

Clay bar, tar spot removal, engine bays, wheels off, spare wheel removal and clean etc etc. try and stay away from machine polishing at this time of year, worry about it in March 🤣

Also, forget your expensive fancy products. 99% of your customers will not care. They just want the car cleaned conveniently and to a better standard than the Hand Car Wash places.
Get in touch with your local Autosmart rep, you’ll save a fortune.

Another tip; get some custom air fresheners made with your social media business identity on it and hang it in the rear view mirror of every car you do. £1 a pop is cheap advertising.

One more thing, don’t under estimate car dealers. We use a mobile Valeter (lol) that you have seen first hand what shite he produces for £40 a pop. I’d gladly pay someone £60 to have it done to a reasonable standard and I’d give you at least 40 per month. 😂
And there are many more car dealers like myself that don’t want the mess or grief of employing an on site Valeter.
 
One of my friends recently started his own company. Mobile valeting, not detailing so aimed at the slightly lower end of the market but still at people that want someone to take reasonable care of their car

Heres his prices for some of the things he offers. He is Doncaster vased so you'll need to add on 'darn sarffffff' tax... So essentially f**king triple it because thats what they do with a pint down in that s**t tip they call the capital

Screenshot_20200825-083103_Facebook.jpg


Hope this helps and good luck with whatever you decide to do mate🙂
 
  Fiesta Mk8 ST-3
I’m in the same boat too, been unemployed now for a while now and was looking at accredited detailing courses. And like yourself like to clean the car best of your ability. I have washed 2 of my neighbours cars but they moved out while back, they actually came over to me and asked if I could wash their cars which was nice and so I put some leaflets to my other neighbours doors recently across the road that I’m into cleaning cars and they’ve seen me no doubt doing my thing. I offered a reasonable price £15 for a basic 2 bucket wash, foam, tyres and rain-x in windscreen but no response at all from about 5 houses. I could lower it to £10 but for that price I know that it’s too low for my standards.
There’s a place next village over as you said a old petrol garage offering a basic wash for £6 with about 3 or 4 people on it.
 

Cribert

ClioSport Club Member
  Cup 172
I looked into it a few years ago and honestly there’s just not any money in it as a full time thing
 

197.

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio 197
One of my friends recently started his own company. Mobile valeting, not detailing so aimed at the slightly lower end of the market but still at people that want someone to take reasonable care of their car

Heres his prices for some of the things he offers. He is Doncaster vased so you'll need to add on 'darn sarffffff' tax... So essentially f**king triple it because thats what they do with a pint down in that s**t tip they call the capital

View attachment 1492048

Hope this helps and good luck with whatever you decide to do mate🙂
Bloody hell, that gold package is a bargain! Too bad it’s nearly 2 hours away ☹
 

Sunglasses_Ron

ClioSport Admin
One of my friends recently started his own company. Mobile valeting, not detailing so aimed at the slightly lower end of the market but still at people that want someone to take reasonable care of their car

Heres his prices for some of the things he offers. He is Doncaster vased so you'll need to add on 'darn sarffffff' tax... So essentially f**king triple it because thats what they do with a pint down in that s**t tip they call the capital

View attachment 1492048

Hope this helps and good luck with whatever you decide to do mate🙂

After you factor in cost of cleaning products, electricity, water, tax and national insurance (assuming he pays his dues) then that would work out at about £50 for a good 4 to 5 hours work (assuming that he’s doing a one stage machine polish to a decent standard).

You can earn more than that delivering groceries for Sainsbury’s.

Theres three types of people when it comes to car cleaning imo. £5 hand car wash people, high end detailing people and people who wash there cars themselves.

Yes you’ll get the odd person who thinks they love their car and might pay £50 for a decent maintenance wash but when their car is dirty again in a week and they realise that the magical £50 wash didn’t keep it looking mint for months they’ll soon be back at the £5 hand wash in Tesco’s car park.
 
After you factor in cost of cleaning products, electricity, water, tax and national insurance (assuming he pays his dues) then that would work out at about £50 for a good 4 to 5 hours work (assuming that he’s doing a one stage machine polish to a decent standard).

You can earn more than that delivering groceries for Sainsbury’s.

Theres three types of people when it comes to car cleaning imo. £5 hand car wash people, high end detailing people and people who wash there cars themselves.

Yes you’ll get the odd person who thinks they love their car and might pay £50 for a decent maintenance wash but when their car is dirty again in a week and they realise that the magical £50 wash didn’t keep it looking mint for months they’ll soon be back at the £5 hand wash in Tesco’s car park.
Tbh I have zero idea on how he operates mate, what he makes or what he doesn't make. I know he worked on the rail and was on mega-money so not sure if this is just something to keep him ticked over or what. All I know is that he posts on his page and that's that 😂

I was just posting as he seems to get a f**k load of business (at least 2 cars a day) so could be a base to work from. But like you mentioned before, people are dipshits and just PCP cars and tend not to give a dogs dick about whether they're cleaned properly or even at all!
 

Archtronics

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio 182
Sounds like a lot of work for not much money.

Appreciate this is completly different and not much fun, but bloke near me has set up a company cleaning bins and he's absolutly raking it in.
 
I've considered doing this too. Definitely start out just mobile valeting and then start to increase services and prices as you start to get more business. Like Daniel said dealers or even businesses that have a few pool cars etc. Issue is it's definitely a niche market to go high end and when people offer detailing on a low end of £200 then a £600+ detail to 99.9% of the population is just ludicrous. I know someone that does the high end prices and doesn't rate it highly if you think you're going to make big bucks like the prices might insinuate.
 

Sunglasses_Ron

ClioSport Admin
I've considered doing this too. Definitely start out just mobile valeting and then start to increase services and prices as you start to get more business. Like Daniel said dealers or even businesses that have a few pool cars etc. Issue is it's definitely a niche market to go high end and when people offer detailing on a low end of £200 then a £600+ detail to 99.9% of the population is just ludicrous. I know someone that does the high end prices and doesn't rate it highly if you think you're going to make big bucks like the prices might insinuate.

The trouble is that where we live, (I live close to The big giraffe) mobile valeters are ten a penny. Therefore most of the car dealers are already taken care of. The ones that don’t use the mobile valeters have some old boy long retired wiping their stock down with an old chamois leather for less than minimum wage.

@TheEvilGiraffe personally mate I’d get a van and go out delivering Amazon parcels. Less agg, less back breaking and will most likely pay better per hour after all the X’s taken out.
 
The trouble is that where we live, (I live close to The big giraffe) mobile valeters are ten a penny. Therefore most of the car dealers are already taken care of. The ones that don’t use the mobile valeters have some old boy long retired wiping their stock down with an old chamois leather for less than minimum wage.

@TheEvilGiraffe personally mate I’d get a van and go out delivering Amazon parcels. Less agg, less back breaking and will most likely pay better per hour after all the X’s taken out.

It's definitely tough to break into and I'd probably agree with the latter part of your post tbh 🤣.

Not to mention when you enjoy something as a hobby in your spare time it's a risky move turning it into a job/business as a few years down the line you probably won't get that same enjoyment you do now.

Even Gtechniq are based in Northampton and their detailing job rate is £18-24k. I for sure would have expected it to be higher than that when you consider that brand name and the prices they charge for a detail.
 

leeds2592

ClioSport Club Member
  Bean 182
I'd probably echo all the above. Some good views there.

I guess it depends what the end goal is. I mean, look at Jim @ White Details for instance. He spent years doing mobile stuff, writing blogs, writing on forums etc, for probably not much money. But look at him now. He must be making some decent money but even so, it's still hard work that you have to put the hours into. I don't know how he does it, working mega long days 6 days a week and editing professional 45-50 minute videos on top of that for YouTube, plus answering enquires, managing his diary, finances etc, while still trying to have a life outside of work.
 

djp66

ClioSport Club Member
Pre-lockdown, my Mrs used to get her car cleaned once a month by a guy who used to visit her office. So on a single visit he had a line up of a dozen cars.

Ok, it was a basic wash and vac and he charged £20 but maybe this is an angle that could be tried. Picking up on what Daniel said, build up a bunch of local dealers and a few companies where you could do it in their car park and that might be a start. Build a rep and then target others who will pay more because they appreciate what they are getting.
 

imprezaworks

ClioSport Club Member
  Mk5 Golf GTI :)
Lad who comes to my work does a cracking job, like really very good. Only charges £25 per car which is too cheap. Uses his own water, got decent cleaning stuff and spends a good amount of time. He says he's worked out costs and does okay. Can'r see it myself tbh :/.
 

Cribert

ClioSport Club Member
  Cup 172
Pre-lockdown, my Mrs used to get her car cleaned once a month by a guy who used to visit her office. So on a single visit he had a line up of a dozen cars.

Ok, it was a basic wash and vac and he charged £20 but maybe this is an angle that could be tried. Picking up on what Daniel said, build up a bunch of local dealers and a few companies where you could do it in their car park and that might be a start. Build a rep and then target others who will pay more because they appreciate what they are getting.
Seems like a decent shout to be honest!
 

Tim.

ClioSport Club Member
I’d pay money to someone to clean my car in the office car park - we’re on a business park and I’m sure there’d be plenty of interest around the place, but getting ‘in’ might be the trickiest part.

A mate of mine started off proper detailing at weekends, rented a space in a local garage and as his reputation has grown so has his business, now an employer and with his own decent sized unit offering storage, PPF and all range of detailing services he’s doing premium stuff all the time, for premium prices I’m sure, but as said, it demands an awful lot of time and effort.

All the best with everything, Rob.
 

Cribert

ClioSport Club Member
  Cup 172
I’d pay money to someone to clean my car in the office car park - we’re on a business park and I’m sure there’d be plenty of interest around the place, but getting ‘in’ might be the trickiest part.

A mate of mine started off proper detailing at weekends, rented a space in a local garage and as his reputation has grown so has his business, now an employer and with his own decent sized unit offering storage, PPF and all range of detailing services he’s doing premium stuff all the time, for premium prices I’m sure, but as said, it demands an awful lot of time and effort.

All the best with everything, Rob.
Agreed. If it was £20 and the cars are all in the car park seems a decent shout
 

leeds2592

ClioSport Club Member
  Bean 182
Pre-lockdown, my Mrs used to get her car cleaned once a month by a guy who used to visit her office. So on a single visit he had a line up of a dozen cars.

Ok, it was a basic wash and vac and he charged £20 but maybe this is an angle that could be tried. Picking up on what Daniel said, build up a bunch of local dealers and a few companies where you could do it in their car park and that might be a start. Build a rep and then target others who will pay more because they appreciate what they are getting.

Sounds like the best idea tbh.

I'd be cheeky, get a load of flyers made up and go round office car parks putting them on windscreens. Once you get a couple, word of mouth will probably sort the rest.
 

VenomUK

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio 172
This is the problem with this market. It's a fine balance between price and time. Once established then you can start charging more money but the long and short of it is you need to set yourself an hourly rate that you'll be happy to earn. Take into travel times between jobs and then fine-tune the service. Engine bay cleaning is a nice simple one in modern cars. You can pretty much get away with APC in a snowfoam lance, adjutant and then rinse and follow up with AS Finish liberally used on a wet engine bay plastics and the end results once dry look fantastic. Something like that for 20 mins work you can charge and extra £20 as an add on.

The Bronze package as posted above for £35 seems very cheap for a lot of work. If someone came to me and offered to clean my car:-
Snowfoam pre-wash
Contact wash
Full decon (tar and fall out, followed by clay)
Snowfoam & rinse
Finished in AF Aqua coat.

All for £50 I would say is a reasonable target and justifies the work and time taken which to the average jo is a better job than they would get down the old £10 hand car wash.

You can then offer the service of a maintenance wash once you've done you magic every couple of week for say £30 to come and blow it over with snowfoam and a contact wash/rinse and hand dry and top up the Auqa coat.

I assume if you're into detailing then you're a member over on detailing world?
 

Bankrupt_drunk

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio 172
I had a scruffy subaru legacy that had I detailed (clay bar, carpets shampoo'd, leather treated, engine bay tided etc). It cost £120 and took the guy about 4.5hrs. The car looked fantastic afterwards, but that's not an amount I'd spend on a regular basis. I do think there is a gap in the market between the tesco car park £10 wash and the professional detailing. I work in a place with 700+ people on site and I'm sure there are sufficient people who care enough about their cars to make it worth while for a professional cleaner to visit once in a while.
 
  172
For me, you need to make the first decision and shape your business around that and that’s wether you want to charge a little and do high volume or charge a lot and do little volume.

So you’re either doing cheap £30 washes but a lot of them, or full days with machine polishing on single cars for £££. Both aren’t easy without a reputation.
The minimum I think you need is a self sufficient system to turn up anywhere and get going, so a van and tank ideally.

It’s a saturated market with some big players dominating but that shouldn’t stop you, think how you can stand out. I don’t think it’s an easy way to make money, much easier working for someone else but if your passionate about it and want to give it a crack there’s nothing to loose but the long and short is you need to get out and graft from the get go. Start with your mates, friends, family try and get them believing in the product, if you can’t sell it to them you won’t do well selling it to strangers.
 

rs 1an

South East - Essex
ClioSport Area Rep
  172
If you can do it outside your house Rob advertise locally and see what response you get. Do not give prices unless you have seen the car or its a returning customer which you have cleaned before. Get them to drop the car off take some details and email your bill so they can pay prior to collection or on collection of vehicle. we currently charge from £100 for interiors, lots more for a light tan 3 series BMW plus £50 to wash the car first. machine polishing from £250 but you need take a deposit which tells you if they have the money or not. Not sure on the £20 wash wheel cleaner costs £10 per litre perhaps that dont include the wheels. All the best to you anyway.
 

massivewangers

ClioSport Club Member
  Several
I was talking to a friend about this recently. He works for an IT company and they pay someone to come out and do all their vans etc. That could be an opportunity. If you could get a few local businesses on board that have a few vehicles, it might give you a regular earner. This guy said that some of the employees pay the same guy to do their personal cars while he's there. Apparently the guy started off on his own, but now has a unit with a couple of guys working in, doing bigger jobs, while he is out on the road doing the fleet stuff, so it is possible to make a decent go of it.
 

Martin.

ClioSport Club Member
I'm always trying to get people I relativity trust to do a basic wash on my cars. I would never take them to a car wash place, and often I just don't have the time to spend 2-3 hours on them myself.
 

Oggy172

ClioSport Club Member
  RB182, 987, Lupo Gti
Think you also need to be mindful that
this industry is likely to be impacted as a result of covid on a private basis.

With the inevitable increase in unemployment as businesses cease trading, these are the things people will scale back on to reduce monthly outgoings.

To echo the point about getting in on a site, at my wife's firm (land development & snagging) - a guy valets their vans for £20-25 a pop.
The wife doesn't mind doing her car, nor I, but sometimes she gets him to do it for convenience.
There's obviously going to be more of that across each area so there will be adhoc work outside of the scope of the corporate jobs.
I'd say that would be my target demographic.
 

Iain C

ClioSport Club Member
Id try and learn a proper trade. The govt is spending crazy amounts of cash on building projects over the next few years.
Ive been kinda out of work since march so have taken to working with 2 welders. Its been good fun and ive learnt alot.
They get paid a fortune too.
 

NTG999

ClioSport Club Member
  Clio 172 Cup
My view is that you really need to decide where in the market place you want to be and your total profile needs to fit. I think it is nearly impossible to move your business from one level to another; what I mean is that successfully working your arse off and getting loads of £20-£30 customers then trying to put up prices just alienates those customers, there is cheap & cheerful, middle ground then top end which requires a new VW Transporter or equivalent with canopy racked out with products, popup gazebo, corporate wear, website, fancy business cards you leave under the wiper of any car over £50k, that's top money but top investment
Being the best detailer in the world isn't enough, you need a plan as to where you want to be, it may be in your area top end isn't the most profitable, some market research is required.....
 

andy_coops

ClioSport Club Member
  172, VRS, Clio 5
Here’s my take for what it’s worth.

I’ve been an insurance man for 30 years now, started to feel burnt out a few years back and set up my own detailing business in 2017, albeit piggy backed into a very successful retail shop selling products.

Hard graft, but very rewarding. We were accredited by Gtechniq and Gyeon and Xpel trainer for PPF.

We aimed to turn over minimum of £300 a day with most details taking 2-3 days in a unit which to be fair cost relatively little in rent and running costs.

Insurance was around £300 a month but that did enable us to both drive cars where needed and have some very expensive cars in for work.

For lots of boring reasons it didn’t work and I’m now back to being an insurance man, albeit in a much better place all round than 5 years ago.

The detailing sector is mental. Completely unregulated with god knows how many new startups in every town and village - some very good, some OK, many with zero experience or skill. Pricing is all over the place too with many working 20 hour days for almost no money in the pocket to show for it - doesn’t matter how many flash cars you can post on IG, you need to earn and the volume means that many undersell and devalue themselves.

On the flip side, it can make very good money if done right. PPF is silly profitable as the materials for a full front end for example cost around £150-200 and you’ll not get change from a grand from a reputable company - £7-800 top line for a day’s work isn’t to be sniffed at, even with the investment in a plotter and the software to cut film up front.

There are ceramics that can be applied outside. Maybe not as “good” as the established brands everyone knows but they work OK and if you can get the client onto a regular maintenance plan then they’ll never know if they drop off a bit as you’ll top them up - clever strategy.

I’d start small, work for friends and family to build a portfolio. Find one or two local garages who’ll give you a day or 2 a week’s work so you have some bread and butter - it’ll be a lot of work as they won’t pay retail but it puts money in your pocket.

Overall I’d say work to the customer expectation. Too many in the trade work to an OCD level which means that they do jobs that haven’t been asked for, highlight damage which the customer hasn’t seen and isn’t aware of and end up working more days for no more money. A very well respected industry guru (Yvan Lacroix) wrote a brilliant piece on this - put the above paragraph massively better than me. Worth searching for.

Good luck whatever you do.
 

Sunglasses_Ron

ClioSport Admin
Here’s my take for what it’s worth.

I’ve been an insurance man for 30 years now, started to feel burnt out a few years back and set up my own detailing business in 2017, albeit piggy backed into a very successful retail shop selling products.

Hard graft, but very rewarding. We were accredited by Gtechniq and Gyeon and Xpel trainer for PPF.

We aimed to turn over minimum of £300 a day with most details taking 2-3 days in a unit which to be fair cost relatively little in rent and running costs.

Insurance was around £300 a month but that did enable us to both drive cars where needed and have some very expensive cars in for work.

For lots of boring reasons it didn’t work and I’m now back to being an insurance man, albeit in a much better place all round than 5 years ago.

The detailing sector is mental. Completely unregulated with god knows how many new startups in every town and village - some very good, some OK, many with zero experience or skill. Pricing is all over the place too with many working 20 hour days for almost no money in the pocket to show for it - doesn’t matter how many flash cars you can post on IG, you need to earn and the volume means that many undersell and devalue themselves.

On the flip side, it can make very good money if done right. PPF is silly profitable as the materials for a full front end for example cost around £150-200 and you’ll not get change from a grand from a reputable company - £7-800 top line for a day’s work isn’t to be sniffed at, even with the investment in a plotter and the software to cut film up front.

There are ceramics that can be applied outside. Maybe not as “good” as the established brands everyone knows but they work OK and if you can get the client onto a regular maintenance plan then they’ll never know if they drop off a bit as you’ll top them up - clever strategy.

I’d start small, work for friends and family to build a portfolio. Find one or two local garages who’ll give you a day or 2 a week’s work so you have some bread and butter - it’ll be a lot of work as they won’t pay retail but it puts money in your pocket.

Overall I’d say work to the customer expectation. Too many in the trade work to an OCD level which means that they do jobs that haven’t been asked for, highlight damage which the customer hasn’t seen and isn’t aware of and end up working more days for no more money. A very well respected industry guru (Yvan Lacroix) wrote a brilliant piece on this - put the above paragraph massively better than me. Worth searching for.

Good luck whatever you do.

Brilliant write up
 


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