Stone's 172 Cup (member berries) track build...

[Jamesstone]

Evening guys & girls,

Figured it was about time I put together a build thread for the little 172 Cup as its finally starting to take shape the past few months, theres few videos to go along with this build if you would like further insight in its coming together!

2 years ago I picked up the 172 Cup to have some fun through the winter, it was for sale relatively local to me and had the benefit of having one of my RS2 Inlet manifolds fitted so thought it would be rude not to have a look. I thought I had put the Renault Sport scene behind me but when ever I saw one on the road I always dreamt back to the happy days of my PH2 Clio 172 so I told myself I would run around in it for a few months to get it out of my system..

I had started this youtube blogging shizzle but mainly on my bikes at the time so figured I would make a video on the 172 Cup!




I ended up enjoying it so much I took it to the ring for my 30th Birthday (performed epic!)

After the trip and moving in with my girlfriend space was getting tight with my collection of toys so I ended up putting it up for sale, thankfully I was contacted by time waster & dreamers which with a new job role taking shape I had little time to entertain being messed around, my girl friends mum kindly let me dump the car in her garage... abandoned.. she sat for months

So after almost forgetting about it with work, house move, relationship duties etc I decided it was time to pull the Cup out of storage and bring it home to begin work, it has been some what slower than hoped but I guess thats part of life with Project cars!

A good clean with some detailing goodness, it was looking better but the paint was very flat and its time in hibernation had clearly not been kind to it..

So the track build had finally started or should we say "making a mess" phase has taken full swing so it was looking a complete state for a good few weeks, next door thought I just enjoyed ruining a good car lol!

The first video on the series/transformation is live and looking back through it tonight I'm really chuffed with how its coming along & super excited to get it on the road!

Whilst away on holiday I came up with the idea to make a Plasti-dip sun strip for the car, thought process is its adjustable/ removable and being painted on the inside means it wont's get scratched by the wipers.

Plenty of updates to come over the coming weeks I just need to sit down and sort through all the pictures on the computer, I get the feeling its going to be something really epic when finished!

 

[Jamesstone]

Suspension & wheels

So the wheels were looking a complete state, the corrosion was so bad they would require pumping up every couple of weeks.. I managed to find a chap in West Drayton that advised he could strip, repair (previous owner must have been riding kerbs for fun) and refit for a very reasonable price. I managed to source a set of AD08R's from Ben Patey on facebook for a really good price so chucked them in the garage ready for when the wheels were done, went with 205/45/16 for a little extra traction.

Much to my girlfriends delight the car was parked on axle stands like this for the week, the wheels were in a really rough way..

Less than a week later I receive a phone call to say the wheels were finished and ready to collect, who says M3's are not practical work horses! really chuffed with the wheels, makes such a difference

At this time I had also purchased a set of B14 coilovers from Nick at Puremotorsport along with his new version of the solid shifter, the carbon one for those who haven't seen it, looks lovely! So it was time to give the arches a going over with detailing potions as there was plenty of crud hanging in there.

The FK's were heavily corroded & with forking oil misting it was clear they were pretty much shot so was good to get everything replaced, I will be changing the rack bushes to power flex, purchasing new lower wishbones/ track rod ends and then finally I need to decide on what brake package to run, one part of me says Brembo HC discs + PBS brake pads with re-built stock callipers or go all out and fit the Mk3 Clio Brembo's but I can't help but think the first option will be more than upto the challenge with the reduced weight over a standard car plus I won't have to mess around with the master cylinder potentially not being man enough for the job and loosing pedal feel, something to think about after Christmas!

Any way, old FK's Vs New B14's plus 15mm front hub spacers & PMS 10mm rear shims on, stance looks great but I'm slightly worried the 15mm up front may cause negative effects on the handling but for £35 for the front spacers I though I would give it a go, new Skoda splitter on to as the factory Cup one had a few cracks/ poor repairs.

 

[Jamesstone]

Progress has been pretty slow on the little 172 Cup till recently, finally managed to get some hours in working on the engine bay, 130,000 miles of neglect had taken its toll but it is slowly coming back together now. Any way, pictures of the progress (PMS V2 shifter is mega but what a nightmare to fit with rusted exhaust/heat shields on the floor, miss that 2 poster ramp more than ever!)

Throttle pedal removed and the rod placed in the vice and moved closer to assist with heal toe





The very tired and corroded engine bay.. this was going to take some time to bring back to a standard I was happy with but now with added pressure of the ring trip closing in I didn't have the time to be sending off for powder coating etc so gave this high temp wrinkle paint a go, very impressed so far (lets hope its hard wearing)





Although we had always sold the RS2 as a motorsport product we did run a small batch with a "high gloss" finish which sadly didn't last and over the years would start to react, the one fitted to my little Cup had suffered this so it was time to strip it down and & send the plenum off for sanding & laying down a new clear coat along with some more wrinkle paint added to the base manifold finally with the casting sanded back to expose my initials.

























So pleased with the winkle paint I decided this would be the best way to clean the bay and could be completed in a couple of days, the rocker cover was leaking any way and as the belts were coming off it made sense to give that a going over to!











Now the rocker cover was looking so good it seemed a shame to put back in the corroded looking bolts, ideally I would have sent these off to a local zinc plater but the old boy I use is far from fast in terms of getting things done so again I played in the garage with some silver rattle can & clear coat.






Rocker cover is back on and looking fantastic! sadly I had limited light so pictures of the finished item will be up once the engine bay is completely back together, next job is cam belt with the inlet advanced, water pump, custom air filter setup with heat shield and race cell/battery then it will just be a case of changing the wishbones, track rod end, brake rebuild with PBS pads/Brembo discs followed by MOT, geo & Surrey rolling road to see what the block will be putting out

 

[Jamesstone]

The little 172 Cup has seen some good hours gone into it the past couple of days & it finally feels like its complete and ready for some shake down/ pre-ring miles to make sure all is in order!

Wheeled out into the day light, even covered in dust & a few drops of rain settled she still looks sweet!

My big order arrived from Renault parts direct to really get the project moving forward, first one being cam belt kit, water pump, oils etc, I've decided to run the advanced inlet set up, this provided great mid > top end gains at the cost of usability below 2,500rpm so as a track/ weekend car I can't see it being an issue, I was tempted to run 197 camshafts following on from the old stone/MWM days results but have really tried to avoid getting sucked into BHP chasing and just sort the chassis to make for a great little road going go-kart

All genuine belts fitted, also marked the inlet core plug with the details if for some strange reason some one other than me was to take it apart and sit scratching there head

Shifter kit from Pure-motorsport arrived & has also been fitted, even stationary I can feel a great difference but the stock shifter was far from an engineering master piece even more so after covering over 130,000 miles so the refresh with the new carbon version should upgrade the gear feel

With everything back together it was time to fire the old girl back up, on the button and its alive again! allowed the engine to go through a heat cycle to ensure it was all bled correctly and nothing was leaking, I was now left with a loose ECU, battery and ton of heat soak attacking my filter so even though the engine bay was looking great it was time to build the heat shield to tie it all together.

As this is something I completed years ago with reduced inlet temperatures I was keen to build a better version, so I removed the headlight so that I could measure a pretty tight fit against the bonnet and then use some rubber strip to close any minor gaps whilst still allowing the bonnet to close correctly. After the measurements had been taken the first version was made of cardboard (thanks nilfisk pressure washer box) then some 2mm sheet aluminium was ordered, using the cardboard as a stencil the new version was made, due to no longer having a full workshop sheet bending was completed with a few clamps and wood, happy with the finish for the time taken.

This heat shield will be the one I run for the ring trip/ summer, next year when the car goes in for phase 3 (limited diff, rear beam upgrades etc) the aluminium sheet will be used to mould a carbon fibre wet layed version improving intake noise & reduced heat soak.

 

[Jamesstone]

The plan was now to get a decent cold air feed to the new airbox enclosure, with having the small opening from the grill to the side of the head light being one I decided to sacrifice the fog light for a 100mm neoprene ducting to feed up behind the headlight, problem was the horn unit would now be in the way so I am now running one to the side of the bumper, sounds a little odd... but race car lol

 

[Jamesstone]

The next thing was to get the handling/ braking sorted as the wishbones were looking an absolute state, they really were hanging which is odd as they look like they have covered twice the mileage of the rest of the car! again genuine Renault units installed, cup spec with the improved caster. after checking the play I went with Meyle HD track rod ends as phase 3 strip down will hopefully see some rack changes which will mean new track rods at the end of the year again.

Decided to stick with the stock callipers for now and run PBS race pad combined with Brembo discs, I really have been considering the brembo 4 pots from the megane/197/200 but really on the fence as to if this is just throwing money at it for the sake of it as I'm going to be a good 100+kg lighter than a stock car running performance pads.. guess we shall see at the ring! also a little tip I learned years ago, if your working on your callipers and you don't want your system to bleed out, rubber glove finger & tie wrap will keep it from bleeding out. Big red supplied the new guts and I had some ghetto session with the hammerite on the calliper, wasn't thrilled with the outcome on these but the callipers really needed blasting back.

Hope a few enjoyed the read, the next update should be the old girl on the road fingers crossed although today whilst looking at the heat shield I keep looking at the old tired radiator and have decided that needs to be replaced rather than leak on the circuit causing an accident or break down, another £16 on Type D coolant yay lol.

 

[BaileyWolves]

Been following you on you tube !!! Lovely car and great content ?

 

[BaileyWolves]

Ps let me know if that inlet ever becomes available ?

 

[MrBlonde]

Great build thread mate and i wouldn't mind doing a heat shield and cold air feed for my cup.

 

[JamesBryan]

Just get 2 gallons of dionised water mate and use that as coolant for the Ring trip.

If it leaks then it won't be an issue.

A lot of the regulars there do that.

 

[stonejedi]

Been following you on you tube !!! Lovely car and great content ?

This!!!!??

 

[Jamesstone]

Been following you on you tube !!! Lovely car and great content ?

Ps let me know if that inlet ever becomes available ?

Thanks & glad your enjoying the videos, next one should be up this weekend (although as you have read the post you know exactly what it will contain lol)

No plans to sell the car or manifold, this was a big push build in memory of my old PH2 172 (loved that thing & regretted selling it ever since)

 

[Jamesstone]

Great build thread mate and i wouldn't mind doing a heat shield and cold air feed for my cup.

Thanks! It’s certainly worth doing and not massively expensive, if there is the interest I can take the dimensions for you & pm over?

 

[BaileyWolves]

The manifold really sounds amazing and makes good gains on a decent map! Mines just made 188bhp with ktec induction and exhaust and map I will be watching your vids as they progress!! Ps loved the VFR vid too ?

 

[Jamesstone]

Just get 2 gallons of dionised water mate and use that as coolant for the Ring trip.

If it leaks then it won't be an issue.

A lot of the regulars there do that.

Have considered this as i’ve done it on bike track days where slide risk is life threatening, my only concern is the bike blocks are aluminium where’s the cast on the Clio would start to corrode pretty quickly I would have thought? looking at the old radiator in closer detail it does need to be changed as it’s not in a good way.. fingers crossed new one will be here today

 

[JamesBryan]

Have considered this as i’ve done it on bike track days where slide risk is life threatening, my only concern is the bike blocks are aluminium where’s the cast on the Clio would start to corrode pretty quickly I would have thought? looking at the old radiator in closer detail it does need to be changed as it’s not in a good way.. fingers crossed new one will be here today

Ahh maybe yeah.

Could throw some Redline WaterWetter in with the water to help prevent corrosion. I'm sure that stuff isn't slippy when spilt.

 

[MrBlonde]

Thanks! It’s certainly worth doing and not massively expensive, if there is the interest I can take the dimensions for you & pm over?

Yeah please mate that would be great and have you just used sheet metal or are you doing a mould i think read thst you may or doing?

 

[Jamesstone]

Ahh maybe yeah.

Could throw some Redline WaterWetter in with the water to help prevent corrosion. I'm sure that stuff isn't slippy when spilt.

The best solution would be the K20A conversion - all aluminium engine then haha! after Eurowrong parts sending an aircon model radiator out today I just ended up purchasing one from Pure-Motorsport, as I really want the car on the road Monday for MOT & hopefully attend Ace Cafe's french car night I just need the correct radiator to arrive, hopefully it will be ready to go this weekend then (fingers crossed)

Yeah please mate that would be great and have you just used sheet metal or are you doing a mould i think read thst you may or doing?

I will run the sheet aluminium shield this year then in the winter remove the shield and hopefully use it as sort of mould to lay the weave down onto to create the full carbon version, I've grab the measurements for you once the fit/trimming is complete as I'm still making adjustments to get the fit perfect.

 

[plees]

Looking like a good revival! Did you heat the parts you painted up after the wrinkle coat or just leave to dry naturally? Cheers

 

[Darryl_1983]

Subscribed to the YT channel. The cup looks great, might start looking to do some of this with my RB once i pick up another car.

I'm now on eBay looking at NC30's though, after looking at your videos...... Always wanted one of these to upgrade from my Aprilia RS125 when i was younger.

 

[Jamesstone]

Looking like a good revival! Did you heat the parts you painted up after the wrinkle coat or just leave to dry naturally? Cheers

Heated them up but only with a hair drier, had read online that this was best for full crinkle effect (shall more detail in the next youtube video which will hopefully show the process, very effective stuff, did the entire engine bay/job with one can (bought 2) so still have plenty left if anything needed re-doing.

Subscribed to the YT channel. The cup looks great, might start looking to do some of this with my RB once i pick up another car.

I'm now on eBay looking at NC30's though, after looking at your videos...... Always wanted one of these to upgrade from my Aprilia RS125 when i was younger.

Yep its certainly not a project you would want to do whilst using as a daily, poor thing has been off the road for to long... that should all change this week

The NC30 really was a cool little bike, ended up selling as I just have way to many projects on the go and with 3 bikes in the garage that I barely ride I was struggling to justify "another project" but they seem to fetching good money these days, can remember when you could buy a good one for £1k - not so much these days! Safe money though if you do buy one but! I would rather a 2 stroke if your going small CC for smiles (personally opinion obviously - bug wicked looking bike the NC30)

 

[Jamesstone]

MOT has been booked for tomorrow (fingers crossed she passes) so it was another busy weekend under the car getting it ready, as always with a project car things are not 100% finished but she is ready to see tarmac tomorrow, a quick blast down the road (shipped to Mexico) all seems good but the brakes are in need of some high speed running in so it will be the long way to the MOT station to get some heat in the PBS pads.

So the aluminium heat shield + 100mm cold air feed from the duct is in place, happy with the outcome but looking forward to building the carbon fibre version next year, I even managed to get the trim inside the intake pipe section to make a "closed/flexible seal"

Local catch tank was providing difficult to mount due to the battery being wider than the airbox so scratched my head for 10 minutes and found this dead space useful, I just need to buy a little filter for the outlet but have a feeling one of my RC car foam filters may work best so will have a look through the garage this week.

Pure-Motorsport had the radiator delivered in record time, once removed it was clear the old one was way past it so glad I made the decision to replace, once out it was clear the bottom was pretty rotten so hopefully peace of mind + it wouldn't have tied in with all the other parts being clean and shiny.

Steering rack bushes replaced with Power-flex black series, what a crap job on the floor.. continued to miss the ramp/work shop days again this weekend.

So with the do-list looking pretty much complete it was simply a case of using the left over aluminium sheet to build a radio cover plate, gave it a scrub with some sand paper to give it a brushed effect and applied the signature sticker, bolted on the Sabelt Cup racer steering wheel and gave it a good clean after being stored away and covered in dust, considering no polish was used it cleans up great for 131,000 miles!

Small front plate arrived but that can go on after MOT.. if she passed and drives okay on the road & I can get the Geo set-up (done by eye currently) it should hopefully be at Ace Cafe for French night tomorrow evening

 

[David James]

Looks mega tidy! Great work

 

[1985michael182]

Loving the wrinkle paint @

 

[Iain C]

Looks awseome. I'll keep an eye on this.

 

[Jamesstone]

Shake down time

With the mighty Clio passing MOT without a single advisory I made the drive to Ace Cafe's French night, great being out in the car again but I had a few niggles to address before the Cotswold blast at the weekend where it would really be pushed on our early morning breakfast run.

Saturday was spent on axle stands, rear raised 10mm, front arches had further modification + trimming to the bumper, the increased stance + more aggressive castor on the cup wishbones had caused some serious rubbing, pleased to report i'm now only getting very small scuff sounds when on really tight lock when 2 up, on my own it seems fine so far.

The exhaust was re-lined and now sits completely flush and a spreader plate made for the heatshiled above the rear silencer to hold it in place as the original point had corroded through.

Finally it was off for Geo at my local Meritt tyre with the hunter system, all tracked and washed ready for the 6:30am departure to the Cotswolds.

I'm pleased to report the car continued to exceed my expectations and the entire package really worked, I took my time getting to learn the car again since all the changes since it had last been used - The thing is just bonkers for corning speed & really rewards with keeping it up in the revs & on the boil, words really can't explain just how chuffed with the outcome I am!!

Straight line pace was near identical to my Friends Fiesta ST running the mountune kit, corner speed destroyed the ST & Clio 197 but I did have the advantage of road knowledge in the area, any way a few pictures from the morning (final pictures shows the extent of the brake dust from the PBS pads - well worth the purchase though)

Before the drive I wasn't completely sold on the ADO8R tyres but after that blast I would happily purchase again, looking forward to seeing how they deliver in the summer when the tarmacs 20+c

 

[MrBlonde]

Nice mate,i was toying of AD80Rs or PS3's.Went with PS3's in the end as mine is a daily,wouldnt mind getting another set of turinis & sticking some AD80rs for the summer tho.I went with M1144 pads & braided hoses,pretty inpressed so far but not used them hard yet.As only all been on for a week.

 

[Jamesstone]

Nice mate,i was toying of AD80Rs or PS3's.Went with PS3's in the end as mine is a daily,wouldnt mind getting another set of turinis & sticking some AD80rs for the summer tho.I went with M1144 pads & braided hoses,pretty inpressed so far but not used them hard yet.As only all been on for a week.

Once I got some miles on them & decent heat they really did deliver, for the money you certainly can't complain!

 

[Jamesstone]

New video now also online tonight for those that don't like reading lol!

 

[Jamesstone]

Rolling Road time

The next on the list of things to do for the little 172 Cup was a trip to Surrey Rolling road to see if it was making the numbers, the car was essentially standard internals with the inlet camshaft advanced and an RS2 base file (essentially what we used when the JMS RS2 the kit is first installed and then the tweaking begins)

As stated on the first blog number chasing was not the plan for this car, anything over 180bhp I would be happy with.. or so I thought!

Peak power was pretty much there for a base calibration, with some AFR tweaks, increased ignition advance & VVT switch points played with it realistically could see another 5-10bhp which would bring it to 185/190bhp which considering this was a block that had covered 132,000 miles I was pretty happy with, initially.. once I actually looked at the curve it was clear the torque was dropping off from 5,000 rpm so something certainly wasn't right & even 10 minutes after being pulled off the dyno I could hear the stock catalyst ticking away (this will be detailed in the next video)

The only real unknown on the car was the Catalyst and like the rest of the engine it had also seen 132,00 miles of generally daily use with the odd track day/ ring trip. Originally I wanted to keep the catalyst for track noise limits and MOT passes but with the value of used catalysts sky rocketing I decided to drop a decat pipe on, this was also an advantage to reliability as the flanges on the catalysts looked well past it.

Still on the same tank of fuel & under 2 weeks later she was strapped back on the dyno for another pull, only a couple of horse power at peak but 15+bhp gained in the mid-range!

BHP & Torque - Catalyst Vs Decat

AFR now with power curve only - Catalyst Vs Decat

Car feels much better to drive as result especially as this is still where you spend a lot of time RPM wise on the road and even in some cases track, the RS2 will typically make peak BHP near the redline so as stated above with a good calibration the car should have no real issue pulling high 180's & potentially into the 190's, surrey rolling is far from a fantasy roller so I know the results are fair.

I originally left Surrey Rolling Road trying to decide where I should take the car to be calibrated but the more I thought about it the more I think I will leave it for now, its drives great and with the lack of weight really shifts (have a video clip to add of the car vs a Z4M (same power house as the e46 M3) the fueling's safe and the engine's not being pushed to the absolute limit, reliability on track is key for me especially where places like the ring are very expensive to break down.

As always I hope you enjoyed the update & comments welcome

 

[MrBlonde]

Interesting that it only makes 182bhp with an RS2 kit.

Much difference with the de-cat fitted mate,like noise how it drives etc?.as mine has just passed its Mot today so maybe thinking of fitting one.

 

[Jamesstone]

Interesting that it only makes 182bhp with an RS2 kit.

Much difference with the de-cat fitted mate,like noise how it drives etc?.as mine has just passed its Mot today so maybe thinking of fitting one.

182bhp is good going for a base calibration file, as said with a trailered map there is no reason this car couldn’t hit 190bhp which considering it’s a stock high mileage engine i’m very happy with, also keep in mind most 172’s make around 165bhp at Surrey Rolling Road (dyno dynamics are not known for generous readings)

Driving wise, sounds much better with no real noticeable drone and throttle response has picked up a good chunk.

The actual exhaust note sounds much better (didn’t original want a decat as I wasn’t interested in failing track day noise tests)

Obviously the biggest gain is in the mid range as can be seen from the graph, pulls hard to the red line.

Driving back Saturday I was really happy with the car overall, going to be off the road for a few months I think as I have a few other car/bike projects I need to get on with

 

[MrBlonde]

Ah sorry mate i thought that was with a remap done.Once all set up you should easily get 190ish area,just mentioned as my cup got 182bhp after a rolling road remap at engine dynamics.

Is yours the ktec decat?.i may get one then,as can always put the car back on if im not happy with it,post a video of the decat & rs2 engine noise when you can buddy ??

 

[Jamesstone]

Ah sorry mate i thought that was with a remap done.Once all set up you should easily get 190ish area,just mentioned as my cup got 182bhp after a rolling road remap at engine dynamics.

Is yours the ktec decat?.i may get one then,as can always put the car back on if im not happy with it,post a video of the decat & rs2 engine noise when you can buddy ??

Yep would have expected it to clear the 190 mark once mapped but it drives great so deciding if it’s even worth having to drive miles to a mapper, loose the majority of a day and be £400 lighter for 5-10bhp lol.

Something in the pipe line for later this year, certainly not fussed for it ASAP, really need to get it on track and see how it performs!

It’s just an eBay decat, was £75 delivered from memory - fit & finish was really good and the steel appears a decent thickness with good welds so will see how it holds up over the year

 

[MrBlonde]

Does the cat have 2 holes for the lamba sensors?

 

[Jamesstone]

Does the cat have 2 holes for the lamba sensors?

Yes, will flag engine management light for the rear one unless you fit a lambda sensor spacer or code it out.

Does come with x2 lambda bungs so you could leave the rear one tucked under the car (second lambda only reports poor running & doesn’t adjust)

 

[1985michael182]

My m8 running a cup172 with only the RS2 fitted CUSTOM mapped at EFI hit 195bhp and 160lbs atctge flywheel I was pissed off because I'm on bodies and group N timing and I only got 198bhp and 171lbs. So with a propper map they are decent. I think matched with group N timing it would be basically the same power as mine.

 

[MrBlonde]

Have you got any updated youtube videos mate,would be interested to see how the cup sounds with the decat

 

[Radugns]

Did you run 7deg inlet advanced? Nothing regarding exhaust?
Nice car mate!

 

[Jamesstone]

My m8 running a cup172 with only the RS2 fitted CUSTOM mapped at EFI hit 195bhp and 160lbs atctge flywheel I was pissed off because I'm on bodies and group N timing and I only got 198bhp and 171lbs. So with a propper map they are decent. I think matched with group N timing it would be basically the same power as mine.

I would be happy with 190bhp given the mileage, need to find the time to get it booked in some where, all those with good understanding/access of the stock ECU appear to be miles away.

Have you got any updated youtube videos mate,would be interested to see how the cup sounds with the decat

New video should be up potentially tonight (editing it now) but more than likely tomorrow, been out recording some new M-car stuff today which appears to have a bigger following on the channel so takes priority, all about them views haha.

Bad news is the second dyno run with the decat I didn't actually get a recording of the drive there or back as it was chucking it down... and the car has been taken off the road for this month as I'm struggling to find time to get out for a drive with the other toys - good problem to have I guess lol

Did you run 7deg inlet advanced? Nothing regarding exhaust?
Nice car mate!

Correct, inlet advanced 7 degree's and exhaust is stock timing, we didn't see big gains for the pay of altering the exhaust timing (granted we never really went to town playing with it but full group N compromised power below 5,000 rpm)