Strange starting issue.

[Tomo_Rep.97]

Hi guys hoping someone is able to help or give some advice.
I'm having a little trouble with my car starting at the minute.
There's been a few times I've gone out to my car and it'll crank slow and then just cut out and die as if to say the battery needs charge, so I've put the battery on charge for 15 minutes and went back to it and it would crank normal and start fine.
The car always gets a good run and i don't have a subwoofer or led's on in the car or wipers going 24/7 draining the battery. So can't get my head around the battery being low and wanting charge to start.

Then there's times when I can go to my car and it'll crank and crank and crank fast and just not fire up at all, Blip the throttle it won't start. Just nothing. Then leave it a few minutes and it'll start normal and be fine. But there's always times when it'll start then it'll need throttle to keep it alive.

Another scenario is ill get in the car, turn the ignition on, wait for lights to go out, put the clutch in and it'll crank and crank and crank but won't fire. So then I'd turn off take key out, foot off clutch and put key back in and turn key to start up without lights going off and it'll start fine.

But one of the most frequent scenarios is the car will crank and then stop completely then crank sounding unhealthy she cranking and then will fire up really rough. There's quite a few occasions now where when starting up it'll need throttle to keep it alive, but stifled at above 2k revs just after starting the exhaust will make like a popping noise. It's as if I've got a popcorn limiter map on it.

I had the TDC sensor changed last year for the new upgraded one. And didn't have any issues till about a month ago.

I think it's quite odd, for example yesterdsy I had to take my mum to work. Went to car, didn't crank at all, it was dead pretty much. literally put it on charge for 2 minutes and it then started fine like normal like nothing was wrong. Stopped at supermarket on the way to her work, when got back in the car, tried to crank, it didn't like it, was like whining and slowly getting into a crank, and then spluttered into life and fired up. later on in the day I had to move my car for my sister as mine was in the way. went to start the car, it cranked and cranked and cranked and cranked and just would not fire up. I ended up having to put it off the driveway, pushed it off the driveway, got back in car to put handbrake on, thought I'd try start it and it started first time no issues.

No current fault codes
2 pending fault codes
P0711. Transmission Fluid Temperature Sensor Range/Performance.
B0500 please check service notebook

Hope someone can help.

Regards
Tom

 

[da rok]

Sounds fairly intermittent, check all the earth straps, and you may want to do a drain check to see how much the car is drawing on the battery when everything is off, a low battery can cause all sorts of wierd and wonderfull electric faults, ive often had the tracker pull down the battery over night... standard draw should be around 15 milliamps with everything off... besides that, it does no harm to go throuh all thr plugs in the engine bay wiring loom and relays and clean them all... particularly the tdc sensor plug... i find i have to clean it fairly often

Hope you come right

 

[STEVE.M]

As per da rok`s advice,and check the charge rate.
If there is no improvement,time for a new battery & very likely a starter motor.

 

[chris blue]

Nine was Do-do for a few goes over a few days, then cranked over a bit, didnt start
Jump started, wouldnt start
Bump started- fine

Called RAC for another issue (Snapped accelrator cable i couldnt sort after 2 hours- nor could he it ended up) and he tested the battery, said it was knackered. They send you a nice breakdown of the fit test they do- so Alternator and starter motor were shown as good

They wanted £90 odd for a battery- got a nice big new BOSCH and fitted myself for £45
Motto- call RAC even if its yer mates membership

 

[Tomo_Rep.97]

Sounds fairly intermittent, check all the earth straps, and you may want to do a drain check to see how much the car is drawing on the battery when everything is off, a low battery can cause all sorts of wierd and wonderfull electric faults, ive often had the tracker pull down the battery over night... standard draw should be around 15 milliamps with everything off... besides that, it does no harm to go throuh all thr plugs in the engine bay wiring loom and relays and clean them all... particularly the tdc sensor plug... i find i have to clean it fairly often

Hope you come right

Okay first thing I'll do is check the earth straps. Is it easier to just follow the negative terminal or is the earth straps easy to find? I have no idea where they are exactly.
Drain test will be next. So what's the process for drain test? Do you remove negative terminal so it doesn't blow a fuse or am I getting confused?
So If standard is higher than 15 milliamps I will need 2 people and to go through each individual fuse and remove and see what's causing the drain?
Also how do I test the alternator drain, just remove the wire on the alternator itself? Is there a way to test this.
Yeah that may be another thing. Battery terminals need a clean too.

Thank you for your advice, muchly appreciated.

As per da rok`s advice,and check the charge rate.
If there is no improvement,time for a new battery & very likely a starter motor.

How do I go about testing this?
Testing the Starter motor and testing alternator?
Okay thank you, I fear that it may not be as simple as new parts knowing on Clio's though.

Nine was Do-do for a few goes over a few days, then cranked over a bit, didnt start
Jump started, wouldnt start
Bump started- fine

Called RAC for another issue (Snapped accelrator cable i couldnt sort after 2 hours- nor could he it ended up) and he tested the battery, said it was knackered. They send you a nice breakdown of the fit test they do- so Alternator and starter motor were shown as good

They wanted £90 odd for a battery- got a nice big new BOSCH and fitted myself for £45
Motto- call RAC even if its yer mates membership

Strange that. I hate thought about the Clio's could be anything haha. Okay cheers that maybe last resort calling rac. what battery did you get just curious?

 

[STEVE.M]

How do I go about testing this?
Testing the Starter motor and testing alternator?
Okay thank you, I fear that it may not be as simple as new parts knowing on Clio's though.

There are plenty of how to vids on Youtube.
Remember that if your battery voltage drops below 10.5 v when cranking on the starter,there will not be enough to power up the ECU,so no sparks.

 

[Tomo_Rep.97]

There are plenty of how to vids on Youtube.
Remember that if your battery voltage drops below 10.5 v when cranking on the starter,there will not be enough to power up the ECU,so no sparks.

Just found a few good ones thank you! Okay cheers. I will get cracking now.

 

[chris blue]

Strange that. I hate thought about the Clio's could be anything haha. Okay cheers that maybe last resort calling rac. what battery did you get just curious?

BOSCH S3 £45 on ebay

 

[Tomo_Rep.97]

Right first thing I did was test battery charge with everything off then ignition on then start the car as normal. 12.6v off and 14.7v after switching engine on, I was expecting around 14.2v so I'm not sure if that's high. When starting the car the voltage dropped to 10.6v when cranking.
Next test I did was with engine running with lights, Radio, Heater and wipers going. This recording was 14.4v.
I then looked around wiring etc and Earths seemed to be good. However I noticed this on the alternator.

Likely to be an earth for the alternator? I traced the loom up to the open sleeving and there is a green wire inside.
I have also cleaned the tdc sensor, looked pretty clean anyway, and also cleaned all the battery connections and terminals.

Another thing I noticed, my air filter seemed to be covered in oil, or something similar.

Also as I'm bit thick I can't work out what setting my multimeter needs to be on to test drain. It's a crappy one but I shall be getting a new one soon.

Not sure what plug hole the positive goes in. And if someone could direct me to the right setting that would be great. Multimeters are something I've never got my head around totally haha.

Hope someone can help.
Thanks Tom

 

[da rok]

Altinator should be putting out around 14 volts, 14.7 is a tad high,

Ill have to look on my altinator but im fairly certain that there is two wires that should be connected to that plug, although i could be wrong, and the green bit may just be a cap for the terminal...

Oil on the air filter can happen as the crank and cam cases are vented back to the inlet... may have been a tad full or run at a funny angle while driving to cause that much oil, although i have seen almost the entire air box full of oil on some clios...

As for the multi meter, the plugs are in the right position, start on the 10 amp setting (the solid blue section) incase there is a lot of draw, then u can select a range in the A section that best reads what its pulling, note that its wize to keep all the doors and stuff closed so the interrior lights dont skew the reading...

 

[Tomo_Rep.97]

Altinator should be putting out around 14 volts, 14.7 is a tad high,

Ill have to look on my altinator but im fairly certain that there is two wires that should be connected to that plug, although i could be wrong, and the green bit may just be a cap for the terminal...

Oil on the air filter can happen as the crank and cam cases are vented back to the inlet... may have been a tad full or run at a funny angle while driving to cause that much oil, although i have seen almost the entire air box full of oil on some clios...

As for the multi meter, the plugs are in the right position, start on the 10 amp setting (the solid blue section) incase there is a lot of draw, then u can select a range in the A section that best reads what its pulling, note that its wize to keep all the doors and stuff closed so the interrior lights dont skew the reading...

I thought it was. I expected a lower reading after just starting because obviously not been run to charge.

If you could look that would be good cheers, it's probably just a black to stop water etc getting into the connector.

Okay I see, i did have it on that 10amp solid section but it didn't give any reading back. Well it was a tiny tiny amount. Suggesting there's no drain?
But I haven't driven the car since Sunday lunchtime so will go test it now. Yeah I kept them all closed and everything off when I did it. Cheers for your help it's much appreciated.

It's strange, ever since I posted this thread. Touch wood I have not had any of the issues I listed. It's been good which is strange.

One thing any idea what the exhaust thing could be occasionally on start up? Sounding like a popcorn limiter map if I Rev it a little after starting up.

Appreciate your help!

 

[da rok]

I thought it was. I expected a lower reading after just starting because obviously not been run to charge.

If you could look that would be good cheers, it's probably just a black to stop water etc getting into the connector.

Okay I see, i did have it on that 10amp solid section but it didn't give any reading back. Well it was a tiny tiny amount. Suggesting there's no drain?
But I haven't driven the car since Sunday lunchtime so will go test it now. Yeah I kept them all closed and everything off when I did it. Cheers for your help it's much appreciated.

It's strange, ever since I posted this thread. Touch wood I have not had any of the issues I listed. It's been good which is strange.

One thing any idea what the exhaust thing could be occasionally on start up? Sounding like a popcorn limiter map if I Rev it a little after starting up.

Appreciate your help!

took a look at my altenator, only one wire is going to the plug...

if you can, get a obd reader and see what the sensors are reading, sounds like its over fueling on start up but without seeing the actual values, it can be anyones guess... mine had a similar thing because of corrosion on some of the sensor plugs causing false readings...

the 10 amps setting was just to start off with so you dont blow the meter if the car was drawing more, put it on the 200 range in the A section to get a more accurate reading, make sure you are disconnecting the earth line off the battery and running the meter between the negative on the battery and the earth of the car...

 

[Tomo_Rep.97]

took a look at my altenator, only one wire is going to the plug...

if you can, get a obd reader and see what the sensors are reading, sounds like its over fueling on start up but without seeing the actual values, it can be anyones guess... mine had a similar thing because of corrosion on some of the sensor plugs causing false readings...

the 10 amps setting was just to start off with so you dont blow the meter if the car was drawing more, put it on the 200 range in the A section to get a more accurate reading, make sure you are disconnecting the earth line off the battery and running the meter between the negative on the battery and the earth of the car...

Had a search online and others said they had one wire. Cheers for looking!
I have a OBD reader yes, so I would go onto the data steam test or whatever it's called and look for sensor readings? What exactly should I look for?

I did check a few connections ones that I could see and get too.
Oh I get you, yeah I put in on 200 and didn't generate any bizarre reading so doesn't seem to be any drain with battery. Yeah I did that mate cheers

I was out in the car today and it had a very good long run, no issues at all and then got home, car sat for 30 minutes roughly then had to go out again. When cranking it seemed hesitant to start and idle. Once it did fire the idle was very very low instantly. But when starting the revs needle was moving as if it was half starting if that makes sense.

So no drain on the battery. Cleaned TDC. Clean few connections. Cleaned battery connections.

What's next?

Appreciate your help mate.

 

[da rok]

id get it on a obd reader and check what the sensors are putting out... check the lambdas, map sensor, cts, its sensors...