Stud conversion any good ?

[Steven_K]

Hi Guys,

Has anyone gone to a stud conversion and liked / disliked it ??

Can you recommend a particular brand ??

Many thanks
Steven.

 

[John Gordon]

Not really much to like or dislike about them. They make it easier to put your wheels on. And they stop your wheels falling off just like the standard wheel bolts.

Any particular reason you need them? Do you swap wheels regular on track days etc? Do you need longer studs for spacers?

 

[Chip-mk1]

I use the pure motorsport ones at the moment, they have been fine.

 

[Steven_K]

Not really much to like or dislike about them. They make it easier to put your wheels on. And they stop your wheels falling off just like the standard wheel bolts.

Any particular reason you need them? Do you swap wheels regular on track days etc? Do you need longer studs for spacers?

Its for a track day car ... its a bit of a fag swapping around wheels with bolts tbh and I had an issue last time out when a wheel wasnt seated correctly, I think studs would reduce that risk happening again.

may also need spacers as will be running 6.5 wheels over 7... which will be the next question lol

 

[aucky]

Pure Motorsport

 

[Michaelfoz]

im running the pms kit and I've not had any issues so far!
my only recommendation would be to tighten the studs into the hubs without the use of a torque wrench.

I just don't think 20nm is enough tbh

I used an allen key and just done them up tight with that.

 

[Fraser.J.]

im running the pms kit and I've not had any issues so far!
my only recommendation would be to tighten the studs into the hubs without the use of a torque wrench.

I just don't think 20nm is enough tbh

I used an allen key and just done them up tight with that.

Flol at ignoring the companies instructions for fitting.

I've had PMD studs over a year, done multiple trackdays, 10+, only issues I have had is the front passanger side coming lose, and that's the side that takes ALL the abuse at knockhill. I cleaned them up, re-fitted as per instructions, not had another issue.

Remember when you tighten the wheel up your going to pull the stuff tight in the hub anyway. And they get installed with locktite supplied with the kit.

 

[Midnight]

I'm sure the instructions say let the locktite set before refitting. So don't think there should be any movement in theory...?

 

[Michaelfoz]

as I've said, tightening them to 20nm is not enough hence why yours have came loose

Also why stus have came loose twice

At the end of the day as long as I don't take it above the original specified torque values for the car then no harm has been done.
it will all be at 100nm by the time it is torqued with the wheel nut
The only "difficulty" will be removing the studs but you can just double nut them and they will come off no bother

 

[Michaelfoz]

I'm sure the instructions say let the locktite set before refitting. So don't think there should be any movement in theory...?

both frasers and stuarts were set before being taken onto the track.
the thermal expansion In the hub has probably been enough to allow the studs to come loose

 

[-D4N-]

I went for this kit, 82mm on the front so I can use my 15mm spacers then the 68mm on the back and still have space for a 10mm spacer.

Fast delivery great quality kit and really easy to fit.

http://bit.ly/1pvLFW2

 

[Midnight]

both frasers and stuarts were set before being taken onto the track.
the thermal expansion In the hub has probably been enough to allow the studs to come loose

Im on about refitting the wheel, I'm sure I read the PMS instructions that wait for the locktite to set before refitting the wheel let alone before a track day?

Could be wrong and could be thinking about another kit but fairly sure it was the PMS.

If that is the case surely there isn't any movement in the stud even when tightening?

 

[Michaelfoz]

Im on about refitting the wheel, I'm sure I read the PMS instructions that wait for the locktite to set before refitting the wheel let alone before a track day?

Could be wrong and could be thinking about another kit but fairly sure it was the PMS.

If that is the case surely there isn't any movement in the stud even when tightening?

depends on what you see as adequate time before refitting the wheel.
I left mines for all of 20 minutes lol

 

[Midnight]

Loctite 2700 has a cure time of 5 minutes but I'm positive I've read somewhere leave it a good hour before refitting the wheel.

Maybe me going mad?!?

 

[Michaelfoz]

god knows, mines seems to be okay, i'll see how it goes on track lol

 

[Fraser.J.]

god knows, mines seems to be okay, i'll see how it goes on track lol

Yours have been fitted for about a week. Only 1 hub of mine came loose after a lot of track use after being fitted for over a year.

I'm going to listen to the Motorsport specialist who most likely got that from the manufacturer.

I left mine on stands for a couple hours to set before wheels were re-fitted and put on the ground. As per instructions.

 

[Michaelfoz]

listen to who you want,
if you weren't such a f**king dubass you'd understand the principles of elasticity in metal

 

[Chip-mk1]

listen to who you want,
if you weren't such a f**king dubass you'd understand the principles of elasticity in metal

But its you that doesnt seem to understand where the important stretch occurs?

as I've said, tightening them to 20nm is not enough hence why yours have came loose

But thats not the tightening, the 100+ you put on when doing up the wheelnut is what tightens and hence what stretches the stud to keep it tight.

If you put the studs in finger tight and then tighten the wheel nuts properly it wont increase the chance of them coming undone during use, it will just increase the chance of the studs undoing when you undo the nut, thats the only reason for the "preload" on the stud into the hub.

 

[Fraser.J.]

But its you that doesnt seem to understand where the important stretch occurs?



But thats not the tightening, the 100+ you put on when doing up the wheelnut is what tightens and hence what stretches the stud to keep it tight.

If you put the studs in finger tight and then tighten the wheel nuts properly it wont increase the chance of them coming undone during use, it will just increase the chance of the studs undoing when you undo the nut, thats the only reason for the "preload" on the stud into the hub.

Bingo.

 

[Midnight]

....

Chip, what is the use of the loctite? Is that not to 'secure' the stud?

It it has a "breakway" of 20nm?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Chip, what is the use of the loctite? Is that not to 'secure' the stud?

It it has a "breakway" of 20nm?

Its to stop the stud coming undone when you undo the nut, and its to also stop the stud being the one of the two coming undone when the stud thermally expands, as if when you do trackdays and you keep getting the stud stretch slightly in use and hence on the passenger side front in particular you have to keep retightening it, you only want to have to nip the nut up on the stud, not nip the stud up in the hub.
Ie, it wont stop the wheel getting looser in the first place, but it will stop the stud slowly migrating out of the hub during continually loosening and tightening. (which would be dangerous as over time you would end up with not enough threads in the hub)

People are missing the point totally if they think its to stop the wheel coming loose, even welding the stud in the hole wont stop that when the stud expands!

 

[Midnight]

Was just curious that's all as it's a kit I'm interested in.

 

[Carlv8415]

Anyone rate the KTEC kit as it seems to be cheaper ? (What is surprising for them)

 

[Chip-mk1]

Anyone rate the KTEC kit as it seems to be cheaper ?

Personally have not used it, but it looks good to me.

 

[Carlv8415]

All made of the same high grade steel so can't be much in it between the 2

 

[Chip-mk1]

All made of the same high grade steel so can't be much in it between the 2

Agreed in terms of core strength, although its possible for the quality of the thread to vary a lot, cut versus rolled etc.

 

[Carlv8415]

Agreed in terms of core strength, although its possible for the quality of the thread to vary a lot, cut versus rolled etc.

This is true. Will have to look to see if both are the same

 

[matt91]

Anyone rate the KTEC kit as it seems to be cheaper ? (What is surprising for them)

yeah i have the ktec kit and have had no problems with mine, although mine doesn't get used as hard as most. One thing i will say is that the nuts aren't the best mine have flaked and look like s**t now but not too bothered about that.

 

[Carlv8415]

Could always strip them back and get them anodised ?

 

[Michaelfoz]

But its you that doesnt seem to understand where the important stretch occurs?



But thats not the tightening, the 100+ you put on when doing up the wheelnut is what tightens and hence what stretches the stud to keep it tight.

If you put the studs in finger tight and then tighten the wheel nuts properly it wont increase the chance of them coming undone during use, it will just increase the chance of the studs undoing when you undo the nut, thats the only reason for the "preload" on the stud into the hub.

if you increase the torque applied to the stud when you put it in a combination of the increased torque and the locktite will make it harder to come out.
That's just common sense.
I fully understand that torqueing the nut is what holds the wheel onto the car

The point that 'm getting at is that if the stud is coming undone due to thermal expansion then you need to increase the initial stretch in the bolt to prevent the thermal expansion reducing the stretch and allowing the stud to come out of the hub.

 

[Michaelfoz]

Bingo.

fraser. false call pal

Chip has basically just emphasised what I said
not having enough torque on the studs when initially put into the hub will increase the chances of them coming off with the nut

He obviously didn't read the part where I said "it will all be at 100nm by the time it is torqued with the wheel nut"

 

[Fraser.J.]

The more you tighten the stud into the hub, plus the pressure you tighten the wheel onto the hub, you are going to stretch the stud even more. Which you do not want.

 

[Michaelfoz]

No you won't.

 

[Carlv8415]

I will just add the locktite and torque them to 125nm like a standard wheel nut

 

[NorthloopCup]

No you won't.

I agree as the stud has a shoulder that it bottoms out on when fitted into the hub. If anything you'll twist the stud by applying more load to fit it into the hub, which is equally as undesirable as over tightening the stud. The over tightening of the nuts when the wheel is fitted is the only way the stud can stretch in my eyes, but happy to be proven wrong.

 

[Fraser.J.]

It's cool. I forgot your 21years of life experience know more than the company supplying and most likely manufacturing company also. These people give out instructions as to cover there ass. As with anything you supply you need to be covered legally. Insurances etc. But nah. They're wrong
pure-motorsport

 

[Chip-mk1]

It's cool. I forgot your 21years of life experience know more than the company supplying and most likely manufacturing company also. These people give out instructions as to cover there ass. As with anything you supply you need to be covered legally. Insurances etc. But nah. They're wrong 

Who is that outburst actually directed at?

 

[Fraser.J.]

Who is that outburst actually directed at?

Michaelfoz. Unfortuanitly he's a mate

 

[MG cup]

Put the handbags away boys. FT is the torque setting that should be applied, if you have rounded the Allen key on them then you have went too far.

PMS studs are good and are now available in 3 lengths and two different types of nuts.

K-tec's bullet tip studs are also good for the price @Gaz-m

 

[Michaelfoz]

I agree as the stud has a shoulder that it bottoms out on when fitted into the hub. If anything you'll twist the stud by applying more load to fit it into the hub, which is equally as undesirable as over tightening the stud. The over tightening of the nuts when the wheel is fitted is the only way the stud can stretch in my eyes, but happy to be proven wrong.

No you won't, you will stretch the threads in the hub applying a torque to them

Agree with Morgan that FT is the way to go