supercharged/Turbo clios

[dannyjenks]

How many people have had this done, either by RSTuning, GDI or Ktec (depending on what offers what obviously) and what kind of figures for mpg you getting as im deciding between them both?

While discussing this, what would be quicker in say 0-60, 0-100, 40-100 and quarter mile etc between the two if running the same bhp figures?

 

[cliobritt]

looking at a SC. but not sure who does it for a 172.

 

[FAST_aD13]

i went our in the GDI sc Clio, the K-tec low comp turbo and the GDI (or may have been K-tec) itb car at FCS.. IMO, if i had the cash - i'd seriously have a look at the GDI SC Conversion, the power delivery in that thing is nuts!! 240bhp/lbs ft torque.. and the noise the SC makes is out of this world! I had previously been a turbo nut, but am now converted to SC after going out in the GDI car. Acceleration in 4th and 5th pulls as well as from 1st - insane!!!! anyway, thats my 2 peneth - it is worth pointing out that the GDI sc conv was coming in at around £6k iirc for drive in drive out conversion, where as the K-tec low comp on was significantly less £3300ish - i dont know what power k-tec could give you in a turbo conv for around £6k, but that'd be an interesting comparisson!

 

[dannyjenks]

i went our in the GDI sc Clio, the K-tec low comp turbo and the GDI (or may have been K-tec) itb car at FCS.. IMO, if i had the cash - i'd seriously have a look at the GDI SC Conversion, the power delivery in that thing is nuts!! 240bhp/lbs ft torque.. and the noise the SC makes is out of this world! I had previously been a turbo nut, but am now converted to SC after going out in the GDI car. Acceleration in 4th and 5th pulls as well as from 1st - insane!!!! anyway, thats my 2 peneth - it is worth pointing out that the GDI sc conv was coming in at around £6k iirc for drive in drive out conversion, where as the K-tec low comp on was significantly less £3300ish - i dont know what power k-tec could give you in a turbo conv for around £6k, but that'd be an interesting comparisson!

I believe for that price they give about 260bhp, roughly that anyway and would be about same lb-ft figure tbh so really about the same

Wasnt RSTunings s/c clio at fcs? because as i remember they are doing as s/c kit aswell and with them been closer to me

 

[carrmrc96]

after owning a R26 and a cooper S, it would be hard to choose. i like the turbo kick and whistle but i love the instant power and whine of a super charger.

 

[Tav]

I like the advantages superchargers bring. The fact it doesn't use exhaust gases to spin up brings some significant benefits to boost temperatures. The linear delivery available from some chargers is great but it doesn't have to be like that, the G40/60 chargers VW used to use offered huge amounts of low end torque...almost full boost from just above idle...yes pleaseeee!

It'd be nice to see a supercharged/turbocharged 1600cc Clio Sport. For me it'd be ITB's as it's more in keeping with current engines and offers good increases in torque

 

[Pete.]

Having been out in the GDi sc all I could say was wow. It blew everything else off the track. Tis a lot of money though but it is a high quality conversion. Although they have to take out the air con system to squeeze it in.

 

[Liam@redmonkey]

Can anyone give a review of the low comp turbo from K-tec i know steve had it done anyone got a review from FCS?

 

[Poopensharten]

If anyone knows the figures which these are supposed to produce from the different set ups and the weight of the cars it should be pretty easy to work out quarter mile times and velocity speeds with a calculator...

 

[Crazychick]

Those prices seem very high for the power increase. Having modded smaller engines for many years I came to the conclusion that its often best NOT to go silly with the power as its not meant to be in the cars. Okay.. yes its funny as hell to upset the bigger cars.. ( had a few 1.8vvc metros in my time etc) but.... is it really worth the cost £for£ over maybe just buying a faster version.

Those prices do they include uprated brakes, suspension and gearboxes etc???

Btw... I don't think that its totally stupid to do this as a mate of mine had a supercharged VVC metro that was stupidly quick. I just am not sure I could spend that sort of money for that increase.. (although has to be said I would love to upset my mates at the subaru clubs with more bhp)

 

[Poopensharten]

Those prices seem very high for the power increase. Having modded smaller engines for many years I came to the conclusion that its often best NOT to go silly with the power as its not meant to be in the cars. Okay.. yes its funny as hell to upset the bigger cars.. ( had a few 1.8vvc metros in my time etc) but.... is it really worth the cost £for£ over maybe just buying a faster version.

Those prices do they include uprated brakes, suspension and gearboxes etc???

Btw... I don't think that its totally stupid to do this as a mate of mine had a supercharged VVC metro that was stupidly quick. I just am not sure I could spend that sort of money for that increase.. (although has to be said I would love to upset my mates at the subaru clubs with more bhp)

After speaking to my old boy who was a mechanic and now an engineer, he has always said one thing about modifiying cars and ive never heard a truer word said....

"There is no substitute for cubic capacity"

 

[KungFuSpaghetti]

Yeah, no replacement for displacement. Although its a load of nonsense it is a cool saying I guess.

 

[Fletcher]

I like the advantages superchargers bring. The fact it doesn't use exhaust gases to spin up brings some significant benefits to boost temperatures. The linear delivery available from some chargers is great but it doesn't have to be like that, the G40/60 chargers VW used to use offered huge amounts of low end torque...almost full boost from just above idle...yes pleaseeee!

It'd be nice to see a supercharged/turbocharged 1600cc Clio Sport. For me it'd be ITB's as it's more in keeping with current engines and offers good increases in torque

Yeah i want itb's

 

[Crazychick]

After speaking to my old boy who was a mechanic and now an engineer, he has always said one thing about modifiying cars and ive never heard a truer word said....

"There is no substitute for cubic capacity"

lol well I have lived with my mechanic for 10 years now and he is always telling me that... and while I love my little cars with bigger engines fitted it was just easier to buy the faster car to start with. ( okay maybe the boring option)

but obviously this has its downsides. ( expensive to run, repairs, insure etc)

For instance my vvc metro cost me just over a grand to do.. ran 162bhp, weighed about 850KG and went very well.. lol But... it wasnt designed for it and the extra power was slowly ripping it apart.

Hence I have been hooked on these little clios a while.. although wasnt intending on buying one for my company car.. but love it.

 

[Whisker biscuit]

What about fuel, which option is harder on the juice and which is easier ???

 

[Bazzon]

What about fuel, which option is harder on the juice and which is easier ???

Like that matters...............

 

[Poopensharten]

lol well I have lived with my mechanic for 10 years now and he is always telling me that... and while I love my little cars with bigger engines fitted it was just easier to buy the faster car to start with. ( okay maybe the boring option)

but obviously this has its downsides. ( expensive to run, repairs, insure etc)

For instance my vvc metro cost me just over a grand to do.. ran 162bhp, weighed about 850KG and went very well.. lol But... it wasnt designed for it and the extra power was slowly ripping it apart.

Hence I have been hooked on these little clios a while.. although wasnt intending on buying one for my company car.. but love it.

the thing that would soncern me about spending the £6k (the turbo conversion from k-tec) Would be compromising the limited reliability thet have as it is, and by the time your done fixing it would you wish you had just bought a fast Subaru/Mitsubishi in the first place?

I dont know, it really is open for debate imo

 

[CHRIS-172]

Well is the RS Tuning / Angelworks SC kit available for sale. There is a member on here from Aus who has been trying to buy the kit but hasnt been very successful...

I think i would have to got ITBs for the noise but ill wait until the SC lands down under and i can have a drive in it..

 

[DIDITNO]

the main difference between the supercharger and turbo, are the way they drive. with the turbo you do get a surge in power as the boost builds up and it feels faster than a supercharged one. However with the supercharged on ie the gdi one i went in, it pulls hard from the start, and there is no lag, it just keeps pulling so why i may feel a little slower,im sure it's not. you really need to drive both to see which you prefer.

 

[Big Bob]

After speaking to my old boy who was a mechanic and now an engineer, he has always said one thing about modifiying cars and ive never heard a truer word said....

"There is no substitute for cubic capacity"

going back to CC's, rather than forced induction what is the most you can get out of the F4R engine ?

 

[FAST_aD13]

Wasnt RSTunings s/c clio at fcs? because as i remember they are doing as s/c kit aswell and with them been closer to me

RST's clio was there, although not running :S... which isn't a great advertisment about its reliability... no idea what was up with it though, so can't really comment. Suffice to say it amused the gdi guys :rasp:

Shame, as from my understanding - this was going to be "THE" showdown between OEM managment & aftermarket management

 

[FAST_aD13]

the main difference between the supercharger and turbo, are the way they drive. with the turbo you do get a surge in power as the boost builds up and it feels faster than a supercharged one. However with the supercharged on ie the gdi one i went in, it pulls hard from the start, and there is no lag, it just keeps pulling so why i may feel a little slower,im sure it's not. you really need to drive both to see which you prefer.

Reliability wise, the gradual (linear) power curve that you'd get from an SC cinversion will take a lesser toll on the clutch and gearbox then a turbo conv would... maybe worth considering for the OP.

Best thing to do (as stated many times) is get a ride in an SC and a Turbo conv with similar power outputs and judge for yourself.. as i said in my 1st post - until fcs i was all about the power delivery from a turbo... until i went in the gdi clio and experienced the SC power delivery :lolup:

also... turbos can be driven off boast - SC's can't, so logically a turbo conv (with similar gains to an SC) should be able to return a higher combined mpg then an SC conv - although lets be honest, you wouldnt be lookin at gettin either if you were that concerend about the polar ice caps melting

 

[geesus69]

RST's clio was there, although not running :S... which isn't a great advertisment about its reliability... no idea what was up with it though, so can't really comment. Suffice to say it amused the gdi guys :rasp:

Shame, as from my understanding - this was going to be "THE" showdown between OEM managment & aftermarket management

sorry but unless my eyes made it up, RStuning's clio was running, and went out on track

or do you mean it was running, but then died?

although lets face it, you build a big power/race car, you are going to get problems, and laughing etc at someone else's misfortune is harsh!

 

[FAST_aD13]

must've been running then died - i got to the pits just before 3 and it was laid up... something must've gone "ping"... what exactly i don't know.

Laughing? I said amused.. and given the hype on various forums about which was the most suitable kind of management (OEM or aftermarket) i can kind of understand it - proof is in the pudding 'an all that

I do agree that is very unfortunate that it didn't last the whole day... would've been great to cross compare them.

 

[RSTuning]

RST's clio was there, although not running :S... which isn't a great advertisment about its reliability... no idea what was up with it though, so can't really comment. Suffice to say it amused the gdi guys :rasp:

Shame, as from my understanding - this was going to be "THE" showdown between OEM managment & aftermarket management

It was out on the track and passed every single car on it's session with ease actually.

There is no showdown needed between the ECU's. I drove the car there and it was just like OE but faster, fuel efficient and very very fast.

As i said before, our car is running a bigger charger AND forged internals. To have a "showdown" would be pointless. You need the same car to do this test.

I'll get the power graph from our car and you can make your own mind up, bear in mind it's on 630cc injectors and only 2 hours mapping on the stock ECU...(graph to follow now!)

 

[RSTuning]

www.rstuning.co.uk/photos/clioscfly.pdf
www.rstuning.co.uk/photos/clioscwheel.pdf

 

[FAST_aD13]

cool - as i said, shame it wasn't running by the time we got there (and i didnt realise it had a massively different spec) What was up with it?

EDIT:

WOW, those are really strong looking figures!! am doubly gutted i didnt get to see it in action now

 

[RSTuning]

AFR is not that nice but in the sweet spot so no issue. With more mapping time this can be made perfect with OE cold start, idle and all other features.

 

[RSTuning]

cool - as i said, shame it wasn't running by the time we got there! What was up with it?

Box

 

[geesus69]

must've been running then died - i got to the pits just before 3 and it was laid up... something must've gone "ping"... what exactly i don't know.

Laughing? I said amused!.. and given the hype on various forums about which was the most quitable kind of management (OEM or aftermarket) i can kind of understand it.

It is very unfortunate it wasnt running the whole day... would've been good to see how they compared

laughing etc is what i said, i think if you look up amused in the dictionary it does mention laughter :rasp:

i'd like to know what each of these tuners actually think of each other, and what's just hype created by forum users. i bet alot of them get on quite well and have picnics in the park together

 

[Russ_16v]

It was out on the track and passed every single car on it's session with ease actually.

There is no showdown needed between the ECU's. I drove the car there and it was just like OE but faster, fuel efficient and very very fast.

As i said before, our car is running a bigger charger AND forged internals. To have a "showdown" would be pointless. You need the same car to do this test.

I'll get the power graph from our car and you can make your own mind up, bear in mind it's on 630cc injectors and only 2 hours mapping on the stock ECU...(graph to follow now!)

What is the mpg like on standard internals Paul?

Cheers

 

[FAST_aD13]

laughing etc is what i said, i think if you look up amused in the dictionary it does mention laughter :rasp:

Do they have dictionaries in north yorkshire? :rasp: lol... am sure they all get on fine, although isn't the whole point about forum'ing to blow things out of proportion?

Seriously though... gutted to not see the RST clio running to compare performance (not just bhp wheel spinny stuff).. idling etc as well

 

[geesus69]

Do they have dictionaries in north yorkshire? :rasp: lol

no





but we have the internetz :approve:

 

[RSTuning]

What is the mpg like on standard internals Paul?

Cheers

Not great because every journey the car did was with the pedal to the floor and full un-restricted boost haha.

Driving round town normally will return somewhere in the region of 30 i expect.

 

[Russ_16v]

Not great because every journey the car did was with the pedal to the floor and full un-restricted boost haha.

Driving round town normally will return somewhere in the region of 30 i expect.

so my daily route being 24 miles of A roads round trip id be looking at high 20's to low 30's? im averaging 36mpg atm, just interested to see what it would be like at 'normal' road driving (ie stuck behind a slow car at 50mph like most days )

Cheers

 

[FAST_aD13]

Driving round town normally will return somewhere in the region of 30 i expect.

Those are impressive mpg figures given the power gains that the graphs show!!! my 182 (remap and panel filter) only gets 30ish around town.

 

[Tav]

What about fuel, which option is harder on the juice and which is easier ???

At the end of the day more generating more power uses more fuel.

The supercharger requires power from the engine to run, being parasitic it will use up more fuel...just like the air con compressor or alternator. Turbo chargers can offer some fuel savings because they get their energy for 'free' from the exhaust gases (well not really, but as good as).

Turbo engines can be quite dirty though as extra fuel is used to cool the intake charge.

Look at the Mini Cooper S, they changed from Turbo to Supercharging and made good gains in both power and fuel economy. Every form induction has clear advantages and disadvantages. Driving off boost offers the best fuel economy obviously. Changing the compression ratio of the engine can have an effect on economy...lots of things to take into consideration.

You do get superchargers with clutches that you can turn on/off at the switch of a button. I think Nissan used one of these on their supercharged 350Z concept, very cool!

 

[Whisker biscuit]

At the end of the day more generating more power uses more fuel.

The supercharger requires power from the engine to run, being parasitic it will use up more fuel...just like the air con compressor or alternator. Turbo chargers can offer some fuel savings because they get their energy for 'free' from the exhaust gases (well not really, but as good as).

Turbo engines can be quite dirty though as extra fuel is used to cool the intake charge.

Look at the Mini Cooper S, they changed from Turbo to Supercharging and made good gains in both power and fuel economy. Every form induction has clear advantages and disadvantages. Driving off boost offers the best fuel economy obviously. Changing the compression ratio of the engine can have an effect on economy...lots of things to take into consideration.

You do get superchargers with clutches that you can turn on/off at the switch of a button. I think Nissan used one of these on their supercharged 350Z concept, very cool!

Cant ask for a better answer than that, cheers pal

 

[Hutchie]

You do get superchargers with clutches that you can turn on/off at the switch of a button. I think Nissan used one of these on their supercharged 350Z concept, very cool!

effectively like and aircon pump clutch????

 

[Jay Payne]

Didnt the mini use a SC before and the new ones are Turbo?