suspension for minor track days

[...]

At least Koni have one happy customer. My Dad junked his on his XR4i as he was totally disappointed for the money he had spent.

one mans "goes round on rails" is another mans "nightmare" , setup for the general unwashed is always a compromise it all depends on how much track time and what the main use is .

Had all this when double driving out carbon westy with the wife , the setup changes between us were pretty great to both feel comfortable .

 

[warwickstingray]

That's why these threads never really have one answer. I'm just fighting the standard corner because spent a fortune over the years on aftermarket crap that could have been more track time.

 

[...]

That's why these threads never really have one answer. I'm just fighting the standard corner because spent a fortune over the years on aftermarket crap that could have been more track time.

there is some good stuff out there but people are not willing to pay for the decent stuff (niton have a decent set of dampers for the clio) and they are not even what i deam expensive when it comes to a decent set of coilovers .

then it needs setting up right .

 

[warwickstingray]

Hence my standard or go the whole hog comment but even then you can spent a fortune and still get overtaken by a race tutor giving a demonstration ride in someone's ruddy fiesta zetec s. If playing with suspension is your thing and you have money then i guess why not. I just know I'd be faster than any suspension upgrade if I was actually on the black stuff practicing more in a tool as good as a standard cup!

 

[...]

Hence my standard or go the whole hog comment but even then you can spent a fortune and still get overtaken by a race tutor giving a demonstration ride in someone's ruddy fiesta zetec s. If playing with suspension is your thing and you have money then i guess why not. I just know I'd be faster than any suspension upgrade if I was actually on the black stuff practicing more in a tool as good as a standard cup!

i have spent years setting up suspension , from my own racing to flat floor setups on caterhams westfields and elises ,

the worst setups are those things with no suspension at all , the phone calls about kart setup have been monumental , and the are stunningly complex (as are cars)

and to know whats right means consistant driving within 10ths per lap to know what you have done is the right thing , often what feels right isnt

 

[djspt]

Some good points here suppose comes down to cost and experience?

 

[warwickstingray]

And the ability to test and a consistent driver with great feel. The roads are no place to properly test a track setup. The track days I go to ban timing.

I think it all comes down to what makes you happy. It may not make your car faster but if you feel more confident and enjoy your car more that's worth something. As in my experience bolt on bits rarely do much on well sorted hot hatches

We had a handling engineering company give a talk at the motorclub I was in and it was very eye opening. One the biggest recurring comments was "well they do that on F1 cars" with no understanding of the tech or how they really implement it.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Lowering your car adversely effects the roll centre. That's one reason a car can feel worse after. But now that NorthloopCup and BIGASH have developed the rollcentre correcting kit that's no longer an issue.
The key to making suspension changes is to understand the complete effect on geo.

No one would ever drive my mk1 on track and then wish it was standard IMHO. It just feels how a car on track should do, and now that Trackdays are starting to imply track limits rules it's not even like you can take cheeky shortcuts on compliant standard suspension like I used to make a habit of doing before. Lol.

 

[warwickstingray]

What rules have they brought in now?

 

[warwickstingray]

I'm in a totally different place. I want to have the space to use a road car I enjoy driving instead of having a track car. Reason for that is I never had anymore fun in a track car because it got all serious and I actually cared about what other cars were doing. Final nail in the coffin last year when I tracked my diesel estate on past it road tyres and still enjoyed my track time.

If I'd have bought the 2.0si estate I may not have bought a Clio. Diesels are poo on track. Too much grunt and no personality.

 

[...]

explain , i have had way more fun in a light powerful car , and i always care what others are doing

and i have driven alot of varied cars on track from a diesel to a 600bhp mugen nsx

 

[warwickstingray]

I started caring about adjustments and improvements and being overtaken instead of focusing on enjoying the car and improving my driving in that car. Spent a fortune on my first car stripping it out, adding a cage, fibre glass, perspex, cams, carbs, taking it to a handling firm getting it corner weighted and modified roll bars put on, setting up the dampers, spring rates, upgrading brakes, playing with fuelling, ignition and timing, fitting an lsd, having wet and dry track day tires, changing gearing and so on. The car went well but it had to be trailered and it just got irritating.

Most fun I've had on track is a 182 FF on PS3's in the rain. Had a few rides in very serious stuff on those driving courses you get bought for birthdays and never thought I wish I was driving this.

I hark back to this days when roads were clearer and my parents hooned around in 80's hot hatches and I realised I kinda of like to recreate that and and you can only do that at a track these days so a tin can hatch on a track brings the most joy to me. Not what's scares me the most. I'd get another motorbike if that floated my boat. Nostalgia wins for me.

 

[...]

I started caring about adjustments and improvements and being overtaken instead of focusing on enjoying the car and improving my driving in that car. Spent a fortune on my first car stripping it out, adding a cage, fibre glass, perspex, cams, carbs, taking it to a handling firm getting it corner weighted and modified roll bars put on, setting up the dampers, spring rates, upgrading brakes, playing with fuelling, ignition and timing, fitting an lsd, having wet and dry track day tires, changing gearing and so on. The car went well but it had to be trailered and it just got irritating.

Most fun I've had on track is a 182 FF on PS3's in the rain. Had a few rides in very serious stuff on those driving courses you get bought for birthdays and never thought I wish I was driving this.

I hark back to this days when roads were clearer and my parents hooned around in 80's hot hatches and I realised I kinda of like to recreate that and and you can only do that at a track these days so a tin can hatch on a track brings the most joy to me. Not what's scares me the most. I'd get another motorbike if that floated my boat. Nostalgia wins for me.

I see your mistake


View attachment 111502


modify the right car for track , and you wouldn't have got fed up

 

[warwickstingray]

Maybe but that's a world away from the money my family and I had to play with and in a country that rains as often as it does I'd still rather stick with a Clio on road tyres thanks!

Everyone loves an underdog. Except the XBOW thing I lapped in the wet in a 182 at an airfield track day. I can't miss what I can't hope to afford.

 

[Tony Hunter]

Some people take it far to seriously.
But then again, not everybody wants to go racing, but some spend and do more to their track cars than we do to the race car??

 

[warwickstingray]

Each to their own I think is the thing although it's always interesting to discuss this stuff

I know what you mean when I look around the pit lane sometimes.

I just want space to spank a cup! If it was thirty years ago that would be somewhere in deepest Wales not going round in circles!

 

[...]

Some people take it far to seriously.
But then again, not everybody wants to go racing, but some spend and do more to their track cars than we do to the race car??

to right , track days are about having fun , i developed my trackday car to be rock solid from a reliability front and fun to drive .

the above comment about wet weather , i would always rather trailer to a track and drive home in a nice comfy diesel box.

At that time i was Back racing Karts , so could have a track car to enjoy around europe with the wife (and not wory about building to a set of regs) and the race stuff did its own thing .....


again i also think airfields are pointless , if i am going to do a trackday then i don't want to drive around a load of cones , but lots of people do .


but then i have enjoyed the likes of Spa , historic Dijon , magny cour, historic Pau and used trackdays as trips that are social , travel and tracks rolled into a package .

 

[warwickstingray]

If all I can afford that month is an airfield day then it's better than nowt. Some of us don't have such lofty budgets or high requirements! I love the rain as it keeps the caterham and westfields away so I don't have to keep one eye on my blind spot. Airfields bring their own challenges and as for driving round cones being boring I always find autosolo's a good crack. Especially when some old dude in a 1.2 nova with no button in the handbrake wins!

 

[...]

If all I can afford that month is an airfield day then it's better than nowt. Some of us don't have such lofty budgets or high requirements! I love the rain as it keeps the caterham and westfields away so I don't have to keep one eye on my blind spot. Airfields bring their own challenges and as for driving round cones being boring I always find autosolo's a good crack. Especially when some old dude in a 1.2 nova with no button in the handbrake wins!

there is more to it than the cones being boring , the damage from airfield to cars is far higher , and as for keeping caterfields at bay in the wet , not when we are about squire , (unless your in a 4wd car of some sort ) as i ran formula ford wets and change my setup for the wet which never took long (disconnect or soften rollbars and damping.

 

[warwickstingray]

I meant keeping out your way! I've had a few near misses with kit cars ignoring rules (not that kit cars do it more even though they do get held up more by normal traffic) and with them being lower it's easy to miss them in small car mirrors so I always do an extra check. I'm not about to claim I can keep a well setup kit car with a decent driver at bay wet or not! A not so decent driver is a different story. Seen plenty go home rather than run. The Clio is just fine at airfields as it's no worse than an average back road round by me. Hence why I like the standard setup so much!

We operate in totally different wage brackets so we are going to have very different views. The main thing is we're both enjoying ourselves!

 

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The main thing is we're both enjoying ourselves!

couldn't agree more , but hey i bought and was doing trackdays in the westfield back when i scraped 20k a year to be fair.

I understand what your saying about small low cars and we are aware of the issues of you seeing us .

my first track car was a bog stock 309 gti

 

[warwickstingray]

Just 20k! I scrape 14k in 2014 and work more than full time hours. Working on my covers band to increase funds as I earn more doing weddings. Made some choices in my early 20's that didn't pan out. share the Clio with my Dad who is retired and now on much lower income. He bought the Clio, I maintain it. Fixed engine mounts, coil pack and gear change for under 100 quid as an example of how we manage. Shared drive track days can be done for 65 each at airfields.

I couldn't run an MK Indy with BT transit running gear!!

Nice to know a kit car can be done on a normal wage just not a sh*t wage

 

[...]

the right westfield with a few choice mods is an excellent choice though , i know a very quick old pinto engined car .


i will admit that mine in those last pictures had had heavy investment and was done much later when i was doing a little better on the wages front

 

[warwickstingray]

Something to aim for one day! For now I have a cup that needs throwing round wherever I can afford