Tappet broken

[william]

What exactly will happen when any of those hydraulic tappets break? I experienced tappet noise today, but the engine was hot. Oil was running in 100 degrees. Noise has been there only when cold before... It was on park for a few hours and then i was about to go home BUT...

Well, tried to start it up , it died with horrible clonking

Tried again, same thing

Any answer is most appreciated...

 

[JAY172]

sounds a bit more serious than just a tappet. maybe the oil pumps failed and the engines been damaged which could explain the constant tappet noise as the oil pressure dropped.

 

[william]

Thanks Jay, but its been running with same pressures (quite good) all the time (well if u can trust the gauge)

And the oil pump is fairly new, few years old, 30k miles...

Oh and im quite sure the clonking was coming from the head, not bottom...

 

[JAY172]

oh right. still sounds a bit serious as the engine wont start so either something major mechanical has broken or maybe the timing belts jumped/snapped. difficult to say without hearing the noise but it sounds terminal.

 

[Illusion]

Could it be the auxilary belt?

 

[william]

So if i try it third time will it break something more, or is the game lost already?

I will be very pissed if its the cambelt snap/jump... Cos it was renewed last weekend... and professional Renault mechanic did it...

Well... didnt check the aux belt, but that doesnt explain the clonking noise from the engine

 

[JAY172]

the aux belt wouldnt cause it not to start unless it had gone into the cambelt and caused that to come off as well.

 

[william]

Thanks guys

Engine actually fires up, but dies in seconds, it does some sort of misfire and that loud noise... bloody hell.. This is gonna be expensive!

I think i give it a third kick, its buggered anyway!

 

[Illusion]

From wot I was told my cambelt was slipping and the aux belt snapped causing all my valves to bend.

I would of thought if the Reno guy fitted the belt, he would of seen if the aux belt would of needed changing. Get the cam belt checked out properly, dont forget ur motor is about the 10 years old if not more, so I doubt these guys work on these much, so they probably know jack about ur engine.

 

[Adams_16v]

what engine is it mate? f7p?

 

[Illusion]

Williams mate, so F7R I think - not that much differance between the too anyways.

 

[JAY172]

Quote: Originally posted by Illusion on 02 April 2004


From wot I was told my cambelt was slipping and the aux belt snapped causing all my valves to bend.

I would of thought if the Reno guy fitted the belt, he would of seen if the aux belt would of needed changing. Get the cam belt checked out properly, dont forget ur motor is about the 10 years old if not more, so I doubt these guys work on these much, so they probably know jack about ur engine.

you mean the aux belt was slipping and caused the cambelt to snap. the cambelt turns the cams. its a toothed belt so can either snap or jump teeth if its slack.

 

[Rasclart]

Well I had what sounds Exactly the same thing

What had happened with mine was a Garage had been doing some work. Replacing the thermostat! Filter came off etc.

Anyway one day I went to start and it did what u just said. It turned out one of monkeys left an Allen key somewhere. If fell in to my filter and went into the engine via the Inlet. Inbedded itself onto one piston broke up went into another chamber and hit that piston

I am sure this isnt the same for you. But the noise was damage to the Internals. Was cheaper in the end to replace with engine. Well the garage paid half.

 

[Ben j]

u havent f**ked a spark plug? i blew one out of my engine! made a hell of a noise. still ran on 3 cylynders though

 

[william]

Engine is 2.0 F7R, aux belt and cambelt were both renewed week ago, along with few gaskets. I was running Elf excellium 5w-40 before, but it was changed to Valvoline 5w-50 week ago.

And the guy who did all the work, should really know what he was doing, he is been rally mechanic for a team with Williams many years, and has always maintained my motor, changed cambelt before etc. etc. Actually he has build the whole car! As well as the rally car too...

You know, now it really feels very bad... Just when i thought that its in perfect shape again!

 

[william]

Quote: Originally posted by Liquid_ICE on 02 April 2004


Well I had what sounds Exactly the same thing

What had happened with mine was a Garage had been doing some work. Replacing the thermostat! Filter came off etc.

Anyway one day I went to start and it did what u just said. It turned out one of monkeys left an Allen key somewhere. If fell in to my filter and went into the engine via the Inlet. Inbedded itself onto one piston broke up went into another chamber and hit that piston

I am sure this isnt the same for you. But the noise was damage to the Internals. Was cheaper in the end to replace with engine. Well the garage paid half.

Even though i feel sh*t now, i can still laugh to this. Im sure you didnt laugh at the time. Seems like anything can happen. But this doesnt look so easy. And unfortunately i think im paying this crap all by myself.

Cheers to all of you, u made my evening little better!

 

[JAY172]

by the sound of it either your mechanic friend has left something loose or the engine has suffered a major mechanical failure.

 

[Illusion]

Quote: Originally posted by JAY172 on 02 April 2004

Quote: Originally posted by Illusion on 02 April 2004


From wot I was told my cambelt was slipping and the aux belt snapped causing all my valves to bend.

I would of thought if the Reno guy fitted the belt, he would of seen if the aux belt would of needed changing. Get the cam belt checked out properly, dont forget ur motor is about the 10 years old if not more, so I doubt these guys work on these much, so they probably know jack about ur engine.

you mean the aux belt was slipping and caused the cambelt to snap. the cambelt turns the cams. its a toothed belt so can either snap or jump teeth if its slack.

No mate, the aux belt snapped and the cambelt was slipping...

 

[JAY172]

the aux belt when it snapped must have gone into the cambelt and made it come off/snap.

 

[Illusion]

I dunno, I take ur word for as u know ur sh*t.

All I was told that the aux belt snapped, the cam belt was slipping and thus bent valves.

 

[BenR]

Afraid none of us will be able to diagnose your problem.

I know of 2 16Vs that have had the spark plug thread let go and need helicoils, both by the name of ben! hahahaha

*touch wood*

Care to describe the noise more, and the frequency.

If a tappet fails itll still run fine, the tappet will destroy its internal spring, but thats about it. So some ticky noise and one valve not making full lift thats all.

 

[Paul C]

ecu? mine had a bad earth and wouldnt start and was making hrrible noises in the engine when trying to turn it over.



Paul

 

[william]

Actually ecu was one thing to suspect. Rally team guys are coming to collect the car and they were very sad, cos it just had left their garage. But they promised to put it back together and free of charge, if it was something involved with work they have did. I will tell you what was it in coming days/weeks.

So one more thank you to all you kind people...

Regards

 

[JAY172]

an electrical problem wouldnt explain the rattle you heard before it broke down or the rattle from the engine when it starts for a few seconds. sounds a bit more serious than an ecu or something.

 

[Andy GDI]

lift cam belt side of car up.

use 19mm socket and long extension

rotate engine by hand with large ratchet... (clockwise) (slowly and smoothly)

listen / feel for tight spots... clicking etc

might give you some more idea...

also try the same with the plugs out (easier to feel for potential problems)





Andy

GDI

 

[william]

Ok, one cylinder has lost its compression... now im waiting to hear why and whats the damage... Looks like im not the one who pays this...

 

[Paul C]

bonus!!

 

[william]

Yeah, they said that their work is always guaranteed. So now the only bad thing is that i have to live with my Peugeot 206 and not having fun around with Clio... I just hope that its only the valves bent, cos i do not want to wait new pistons from US.

Oh BTW Andy, thanks for the tip... most appreciated.

 

[JAY172]

have they told you what made the cylinder lose compresion yet.

 

[william]

No, not yet, but promised to keep me updated... They just did a compression test, and took the engine out, going to open it tomorrow morning or something... I said that they dont have to hurry cos its not my only car.

He was just guessing (same as you Jay did) that its the cambelt jumping, from the symptoms it has and was very embarrassed... But i think you can sometimes make mistakes, eventough youve done something for a hundred times...

 

[william]

Yep, car is back on track.

Hard to explain what happened, but ill try: cambelt wasnt slipping, it was perfect. But the problem was one tiny shaft/bolt which is used to connect pulley to camshaft. When engine started, only pulley was rolling, not the camshaft itself. As said, that caused it to die immediatly after startup. And thank god, i didnt try it again. Pistons survived (due to their shape maybe?) And only two valves bent. Rally guys had never seen anything like that before, but the said that they should have seen the problem when the head was off from the engine. So they did all "service" for the head for free...

Great service, cannot say anything more...

 

[fastwunz]

Sounds like they didnt tighten the tensioner bolt to the cam belt - monkeys! Therefore the belt would be loose and not spinning at the required speed - glad to hear its fixed though! i had to do the whole thing myself - took 4 weekends as id had never done anything like it before and i did not enjoy myself to say the least!

Happy Motorin Will!

 

[william]

Thanks!

but mate, it wasnt so simple case (just untensioned belt). But best thing is that its running now better than ever. And when i was watching my engine in pieces (at their garage) im sure u didnt enjoy what you did... especially when it was your first time.

 

[BenR]

The cam pulley bolt was loose!!!!

There is a locating dowel on the cam which means that the pulley would have to of been sitting 5-7mm off its face for it not to spin!

 

[JAY172]

the cam pulley bolt must have been very loose to allow the cam pulley to move across that much that it had come of the locating peg. oh well mistakes do happen but leaving a cam pulley loose is school boy error.

 

[william]

Yup, school boy error. Thats what they said too... With a red coloured face. Good thing is that they admitted such a silly mistake. Someone else maybe wouldnt...

Thats why it was free of charge.

 

[Paul C]

sounds like quite a decent place then mate and its good that they sorted it out for you.

Paul

 

[JAY172]

least they owned up to it and fixed it for you. sounds a decent gaff as paul says.