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Terrible bump steer!!



  Ph1 track 172
Ok since buying my valver, it has always had horriffic bump steer!!
going over bumps or uneven roads, the car pull violently in either direction,
happens the least when accelerating and can happen easily when braking.

since buying the car i have replaced,
Shocks
Ball joints
Wishbone bushes
Drop links
tyres

it has got marginly better each time!!

i also have new track rod ends waiting to go on and tracking

any suggestions?
its a completely stripped out valver btw,
im thinking have the allignment completely checked over.
 
  Ph1 track 172
top mounts are also new!
and oooooo low blow!

and danny its not shockingly low
168597_1737468433338_1137422624_1906428_3549023_n.jpg


sorry if its a bad pic, its just to show the height,
i fitted camber correction bolts also and dialed in some camber,
the problem hasnt got any better or any worse.
 

TheEvilGiraffe

South East - Essex
ClioSport Area Rep
Was only joking dude.

It's pretty frikkin' low:

5378731595_d4e1ac3fae_z.jpg


I'd suggest having some tracking/geo checked at an establishment that is not KwikFit.

Get it up on a 2-post and wiggle things if you can...?
 
  S4 Avant
Get it laser aligned. Negative camber won't be helping your cause either, great for going round corners, awful for wandering around on straight roads.
 
  Ph1 track 172
oh wow, thats a much better pics, why didnt i use that!!

the camber hasnt really made it worse, it was just as bad before,

ill get the brakes all refurbed (new carriers, discs, pads, fluid are all enroute)
and get the rod ends changed and tracking done

then ill look at getting the geometry set up,
can anyone recomend me somewhere to get it done in the Essex area??
 

Rob

ClioSport Moderator
Get it down to Elite, the place you advised me to go I think?

Mine was pretty bad with this, often made bumpy roundabouts interesting. It's blinding now.
 
  Ph1 track 172
nope wouldnt have been me that said about elite!

where abouts are they,
and what did they do to yours to make it so good?

roundabouts are usually fine,
when actually taking a turn while accelerating from lowish speed its fine,

its more an issue going in a straight line, youll go over a bump and the car will try and dive into the curb!
if youre not on top of it from the second it hits, you might be in trouble! lol
 

Rob

ClioSport Moderator
Erm, it's some place on the A13 mate, it's past the m25, I was sure it was you who recommended it to me.

I got full four wheel alignment and then -1 camber put into each side.

Sorted.

Literally drove like a different car.
 

TheEvilGiraffe

South East - Essex
ClioSport Area Rep
Mark Fish is pretty good !! He knows his stuff. Based in Harlow.

If you've adjusted it yourself I'm guessing you've got no gauges. ^Rob's was hilariously made up. It did not go round corners !! Cant remember where we left the geo with that one... but whatever we did it was much better afterwards.

A few minutes out, let alone full degrees out from one side to the other can make one hell of a difference to your handling !


Edit: that's what happened to the handling. Some pro's looked at it !
 
  Ph1 track 172
did they use camber correction bolts??
i got some off ebay saying they were by eibach but they seem abit shite!

ill get my rod ends on and ill probs look them up!!
cheers dude
 

Rob

ClioSport Moderator
The camber is adjustable on my coilies mate. They just did that.

Did a great job and weren't that expensive.

I'd definitely try that sharpish, if it doesnt make the world of difference it's not the most expensive thing to have tried.
 
  Ph1 track 172
well im not even on coilovers, just eibach springs, and spax shocks
so no point going mad on the set up! :D
ill look them up, thanks mate!
 
  DCi 100
Spent some time sorting out the wheel alignment now the top mounts, Lower ball joints and wheel bearings have all been replaced.

I used what is known as the `string` method, its surprisingly accurate..

First, I started with a roll of SEA FISHING SHOCK LEADER, its strong fishing line, I bought 50m in Fluorescent Red off Ebay for £2.75 delivered.

Start by making sure the steering wheel is pointing straight ahead, if this is moved or off centre, you will end up with the wheel not dead ahead when the car is driving straight. !!

Your method may vary slightly, but the basic theory is the same. I have some pieces of stone laying around which were ideal, you need something moveable but heavy enough to stay in place.

Start by having a pile of blocks at each corner of the car, now run a length of line down each side of the car, approximately parallel and then ties round each pile of blocks, slide the blocks apart to tighten the line and move up and down so the line runs level with the car hub
IMG_3234800x600.jpg


Now, the IMPORTANT PART, much easier with a helper. You want to ensure the lines are parallel down each side of the car, so measure the distance between the lines
IMG_3238800x600.jpg


In my case, it was 1.714m (this really doesnt matter)
IMG_3236800x600.jpg


Now do the same at the front of the car
IMG_3243800x600.jpg


Again, 1.714m
IMG_3241800x600.jpg


You now know the lines are parallel to each other, but they also need to be parallel to the sides of the car. Shown as NOT being parallel to the car below:
parallelnottocarcopy800x600.jpg


To check, you measure the Hub > Line distance.

Front drivers side. I measured from that raised part on the wheel centre to the line. Just over 63mm
IMG_3256800x600.jpg


Now the same on the nearside front, I adjusted the blocks at each side, to move the line so the front measurement was the same.

Rear Drivers side, 69mm from wheel to line
IMG_3277800x600.jpg


Rear passenger side, 69mm wheel to hub.
IMG_3278800x600.jpg


Lines parallel to the car with Hub measurements shown.
hubstolinescopyDesktopResolution.jpg


TAKE TIME DOING THE ABOVE STEPS. If you rush it, there is not point continuing. You Need to keep measuring the distance from the wheels centres to the line and the distance between the lines to ensure the Lines are parallel to EACH OTHER AND the lines are parallel to the car.

You now have to lines running down the side of the car, if you move these, you need to start again !
paralleltocarcopy800x600.jpg


I started with the rear wheels. I wanted to check the wheels were both pointing forwards. The reason I checked this is that I fitted the rear beam and there is play in the mounting bolts to allow beam alignment adjustment.

It does NOT matter which point on the wheels you pick, but you MUST keep using the same point for every wheel. It ensures consistency and stops silly errors creeping in.

Rear Passenger side, front edge to line : 51mm
IMG_3279800x600.jpg


Rear Passenger side, rear edge to line : 53mm
IMG_3281800x600.jpg


Rear Drivers side, front edge to line : 51.5mm
IMG_3285800x600.jpg


Rear Drivers side, rear edge to line : 52mm
IMG_3288800x600.jpg


What this means is that in my case, the rear wheels were slightly toeing out and the passenger side more than the drivers.. Wheel angle greatly exaggerated below to show what I mean.
rearwheelscopy800x600.jpg


I loosened the rear beam mounts and adjusted the beam until the measurements were equal at each side.
I ended up with the distance from the front edge of the wheels being as close to the rear edge as my adjustment allowed. I still have slight toe out at the rear, probably due to a slightly bent rear beam, but as I`ve had this for 18 months and found the handling to be fine, I`m leaving it.
rearwheelsaftercopy800x600.jpg


Next step was to move onto the front wheels. I turned the car around and re set the parallel lines, so the measurements may not tie in with the ones above.

Front wheel measurement in progress
IMG_3294800x600.jpg


Front Drivers side, rear edge : 46mm
IMG_3295800x600.jpg


Front Drivers side, Front edge : 57mm
IMG_3298800x600.jpg


I took measurements for the Front Passenger side too, they were 52mm and 46mm.

This meant I had huge Toe IN. This was not suprising, I`d had all the suspension apart when replacing most of the components, I would not expect someone checking a car that hadn`t had major works to be this far out.
frontbefore800x600-3.jpg


To adjust the tracking, loosen the Tie rod locking nut
IMG_3301800x600.jpg


Move the nut sufficiently down the tie rod so it does not impede adjustment
IMG_3302800x600.jpg


Fit suitable spanner and adjust the tracking. In my case, you would push the rear of the wheel outwards, therefore bringing the front in.
IMG_3303800x600.jpg


I was after zero toe, I had run this before and liked the handling on track.

Measuring the front wheels
IMG_3308800x600.jpg


Front edge of the Drivers front wheel : 41mm
IMG_3306800x600.jpg


Rear edge of the Drivers front wheel : 41mm
IMG_3307800x600.jpg


Front wheels after adjusting both sides. Zero toe (parallel)
frontafter800x600.jpg


Final check of all 4 wheels to ensure nothing had moved.
after800x600.jpg


I took the car for a test drive and there was NO crabbing or off centre positioning of the steering wheel required.

This method may SOUND simplistic and not very accurate, but you will be surprised how you can spot even the tiniest adjustments with a steel rule and fishing line...

ALL credit for that goes to Nige on Northloop, non of it is written by me!

You'll be able to see if it's majorly out by doing that I guess. It's mentioned in that thread over there a buckled wheel could effect it aswell, worth a thought.
 
  Ph1 track 172
cheers for the quote dude.
i may have a go for piece of mind,
but it looks like the kind of thing i lack the patience to do myself lol

if i get 4wheel alignment done from a shop (such as elite)
will the also loosen up the rear beam mounts in order to adjust the rear tracking like in the above guide??
 
  DCi 100
Not as far as I know, rears will just be fixed as there's no variation such as the track rod to ever put it out, except bending the mount I guess.

Worth checking. If you do and it's out, double/triple check it by starting over and over to make sure and it's the same. Worth taking it to get looked at. Could save you afew quid if it isn't though!
 
  182cup & 172 racecar
Most race and rally cars are set up like this,even seen it done in a forest carpark with a bit of fishing line
 
  DCI100 / 211hp MK1
Alex go down to formula one near paycocke road they do a free 4 wheel alignment check. Had mine done there before xmas. They give you a print out of that you car is compared the the manufacturers settings etc. They had a field day with my 172 widetrack lol. Also i know it sounds stupid but do you have play in the rack? you could be over correcting yourself.
 
  Ph1 track 172
Dan you're on cliosport!!??!!??!!??!!??
Formula one? Ill look them up after I've fitted my rod ends, seems easier than going down the a13 lol
And I'm not sure if I have play in the rack, you can move the wheels slightly by hand, but there are no clunks or anything!
 
  Mini Cooper S
Elite are pretty good. They will adjsut whatever they feel necessary. Ask to have a look at the print off before they touch anything.

The car is going to be more sensitive to potholes and camber in the road, due to it being lowered. It is only a light car, surely that doesn't help either?
 
  DCI100 / 211hp MK1
Dan you're on cliosport!!??!!??!!??!!??
Formula one? Ill look them up after I've fitted my rod ends, seems easier than going down the a13 lol
And I'm not sure if I have play in the rack, you can move the wheels slightly by hand, but there are no clunks or anything!

shhh dotn tell anyone......and i became a member today. Had to keep you in check tbh mate, also have you still got my slide hammer? Any chance of getting that back this year lol. Yeah anyway formula 1 look them up, I went in there as I was curious to see my set up and they are pretty helpful! Its worth a shot. How to get there coming from pound lane way is right and the roundabout near bp and then left at the next roundabout and they are straight on your left.
 
  Ph1 track 172
Cheers dude, ye really sorry about the hammer, ill drop it round later this eve dude!
Providing I don't end up in a ditch because of this bump steer lol
 
  DCI100 / 211hp MK1
Drop me a text later as i got to go and pick some parts up later and help a fellow valver owner out, Also off topic but you interested in a ptfe cam cover gasket for your engine ;)

Txt me if you interested
 
  Ph1 track 172
Cam cover, is that the one directly under the rocker cover?? If so I've literally just bought one lol,

Sorry I'm going through phones like loo roll atm,
Pm me your number/bbm/ping chat, what ever you have lol
 
  DCI100 / 211hp MK1
cam cover is the very top one that if you take off the cover it shows the cams lol

Also any chance of dropping that slide hammer out as im hoping to raise the rear at the weekend. weather and coldness dependant lol
 


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