The Cup is Staying

[Cuppy 172]

After test driving the new CTR and the LCR I have decided to keep the cup, reasons are as follows (if anyone is interested):

CTR 04 model - The new CTR looks IMHO better than the previous model change in lights, bumpers etc, it has a fantastic engine and the vtec is very inviting. But personally after 100 miles in a demo car I was very disapointed with the power (I realise it only had 1500 miles on it) but to be honest it didnt feel as quick as the cup upto 80 and thats when it counts usually, or even give me half the enjoyment of the cup. i know the build quality is much better on the honda but overall I would not recommend swapping a 172/cup for a CTR (overall both great cars).

LCR - 225bhp version, this is one fantastic motor, the power is always available and i love all the toys. the sales guy let me and the missus out for over 1 hour (on ourselves) and it was great. Only draw back would be the seats are not that supportive (swap for factory recaros - £795). overall I really wanted a LCR but the price tag was a bit to steap for me, maybe in the future but IMHO worth ever penny as a next step from a 172/cup.

Please comment if you agree/disagree

 

[Moby]

Maybe geordiepaul or another ctr owner will agree - the ctr is deceptively quick, is smoother than the cup so maybe doesnt feel like you are going / accelerating so quick. The 1500 miles may be an issue, a dealer told me that between 3000 and 4000 was where it opened up - they are seemingly very tight from new.

The Cup is a hard act to follow tho.

Cant comment on the LCR - never driven one!

 

[Cuppy 172]

Test the LCR mate, you will not be disapointed

 

[Moby]

It crossed my mind before I order the civic, but am I right in saying it costs more than the ctr?

Im not overly keen on how it looks either, great from the front, but not keen on the back. Suppose if I was driving it I wouldnt see either!

http://www.fasthatchbacks.com/index.php?pagename=http://www.fasthatchbacks.com/car.php?model=9http://www.fasthatchbacks.com/index.php?pagename=http://www.fasthatchbacks.com/car.php?model=9

It does sound good tho.

 

[Cuppy 172]

Its 18K, but you can get one foe 17.5, not much discount but they hold their price very well. I think the 5 doors does put alot of people of the car, but I thinks is a more of a all rounder i.e quick, looks good, pratical, reliable and holds its price well. BINGO

 

[Moby]

Yeah, dont think the 5 doors would bother me - out of interest, is it a proper 5 seater?

 

[Cuppy 172]

Yes

 

[evy84uk]

I kno I may sound stupid when i ask this but wot is a LCR????????

 

[Rich-D]

Quote: Originally posted by evy84uk on 10 February 2004

I kno I may sound stupid when i ask this but wot is a LCR????????

LCR = Leon Cupra R

 

[Brazo]

The cup or the CTR has been bothering me lately too!

I have been thinking of replacing the cup with an 04 CTR but couldnt justify the extra 6k for the following reasons - personal to me.

I rarely...if ever exceed 100mph so the CTRs top end advantage is irrelevant. According to EVO the cup is still quicker to 60. There are lots of CTRs about and in comparison very few cups.

I do howver like the CTR interior so I will treat my cup to some decent seats instead!

 

[Cuppy 172]

Keep the faith, the cup will reward you

 

[jonnyboy]

I rekon stuff like the LCR and CTR arent a big enough difference in performance or comfort for the money. Maybe its just my way off thinking but for me a next logical step would be an Evo or VX220. Its owning the 172 thats given me a thirst for something more powerful tho, Its that sort of car!

 

[Paul_P1]

I wouldnt go from a 172/Cup to a CTR if I were you, overall I was very dissapointed with the CTR, the novelty of the VTEC wore off pretty quickly, overall just not as fun as the 172 to drive.

Id say the LCR has the slight edge, due to the tuning potential. Another alternative would be a new WRX from a car broker, bound to get several thousand off list!

 

[Dansta]

thanks for this guys. has heled with some decisions!

 

[Brazo]

Quote: Originally posted by jonnyboy on 10 February 2004

I rekon stuff like the LCR and CTR arent a big enough difference in performance or comfort for the money. Maybe its just my way off thinking but for me a next logical step would be an Evo or VX220. Its owning the 172 thats given me a thirst for something more powerful tho, Its that sort of car!

Totally agree, whilst we all criticise, compare and evaluate, cup/LCR/CTR and even Focus RS, in real world it aint wirth swapping between them in terms of performance. Gotto go up a stage? Still cars like the CTR and Focus and cup to an ever so slightly lesser extent will hold their own on a dry track even against much more expensive EVOs and scoobs.

Best go for the VX220 Turbo then

Anyone read the report on the 350Z in EVO this month sounds a nice car?

 

[Moby]

^^^^
Not alf!

 

[geordiepaul]

I would agree with most of the comments here. The CTR does not feel as quick as the 172/cup simply because its heavier and lacks torque. But this is made up by the close/low ratio gearbox which means that when driven properly I think it would murder my 172.

I did drive a LCR 225 and was only a second away from ordering one. But it has crap seats and the gearbox is dreadfull. IMO it looks like a normal hatchback with big alloys. The normal Cupra has a more appealing bodykit. It does feel quicker because it has bags of torque thats available low down the revs.

I simply went for the CTR because of the engine and gearbox and it was a much nicer car to sit in that anything else I could afford. And its different...it doesnt look like your everyday hatchback. And most importantly of all its built better and the dealer are miles better.

Overall there is nothing between the 2 cars! I would even go as far to say the 172 is more fun as its a little bit more agile round the tight stuff. The 172 does have more understeer and it leans into corners more which means that the CTR can take more speed into some corners. But at the end of the day I wanted certain things from my next car and the CTR matched my needs better than anything else. And TBH I had had all I could take from my local Renault dealer!!

 

[Paul_P1]

The gearbox on my dads LCR is just fine, better than my old 172 by a mile. Having said that though, any gearbox after the CTR is a let down!

 

[geordiepaul]

Yeah sorry thats what I meant....The LCR gearbox is very similar to the 172 gearbox it just lack the precision of the CTRs. It just doesnt feel like it can take any abuse, I nver felt that the 172 gearbox would stand up to a lot of thrashing...whereas the CTRs feels like it will go on forever!

 

[rs_ffoc]

I have had both a LCR and have a 172, I have also driven the CTR..

Here is my 2ps worth.

The LCR is brilliant you HAVE TO CHIP it and its the fastest thing under 18k, if you are looking to get one get the older 210 version its the same power when chipped (270blp/307lbs ft). I love everything about this car except. Some said about the Grearbox on the LCR its lovely the clutch is really light and easy to change gear fast...

The handling, it overseers like a b*tch Its nowhere near as fun as the 172/CTR on the twisties.... But that doesnt make it a bad car...

The 172 is cheap as chips to buy at the right places, Fully loaded, the only thing that I expect this to let me down is the build. Then again I bought the car knowing it wasnt great so I wont moan.

After having mine for a week now, I love its go-Kart ways, seems like you are going faster than you really are which is a good thing for me. Again I was shocked on the toys you get as standard.

As for my test drive in the CTR, I really like the look now however it does look more like an MPV than a sports car. I wasnt to impressed with the engine, it was ok but I think I missed the torque abit to much. Oh and the interior is terrible IMO very cheap looking and whats up with them nobs on the dash, and the crappy CD player?

 

[Brazo]

Quote: Originally posted by rs_ffoc on 11 February 2004


I have had both a LCR and have a 172, I have also driven the CTR..

Here is my 2ps worth.

The LCR is brilliant you HAVE TO CHIP it and its the fastest thing under 18k, if you are looking to get one get the older 210 version its the same power when chipped (270blp/307lbs ft). I love everything about this car except. Some said about the Grearbox on the LCR its lovely the clutch is really light and easy to change gear fast...

The handling, it overseers like a b*tch Its nowhere near as fun as the 172/CTR on the twisties.... But that doesnt make it a bad car...

The 172 is cheap as chips to buy at the right places, Fully loaded, the only thing that I expect this to let me down is the build. Then again I bought the car knowing it wasnt great so I wont moan.

After having mine for a week now, I love its go-Kart ways, seems like you are going faster than you really are which is a good thing for me. Again I was shocked on the toys you get as standard.

As for my test drive in the CTR, I really like the look now however it does look more like an MPV than a sports car. I wasnt to impressed with the engine, it was ok but I think I missed the torque abit to much. Oh and the interior is terrible IMO very cheap looking and whats up with them nobs on the dash, and the crappy CD player?

I do agree about the MPV style of the CTR but it doesnt stop me from wanting one in championship white with the nice red badges! Saw a trailer load of them on the M4 once and they just looked great!

If you have to chip the LCR is it really worth it? I know turbos are easy to tune but once you start throwing in a modded car to the equation it kinda creates an un level playing field.

For track use the CTR has gone around Bedford in 1.24 mins, faster than the cup at 1.26.30mins and significantly faster than the LCR at 1.33mins. Not sure about FRS as evo have only posted a wet time.

 

[SideShowBob]

I suppose thats a point about the modding, but the other thing to consider is the ease and cost effectiveness of tuning a turbo car, so its potential is much greater than that of a Cup or CTR.

I like the CTR, but for me it doesnt warrant the extra over a Cup. Mate has just bought a 04 one, been passenger in it, and its a good solid car, but didnt feel nimble like a hothatch, and I dont like a gear stick poking out of the dash, no matter how much easier it is to apparently change gear, can you imagine picking a bird up in that!!

CTRs are very good, and a more grown up choice of hatchback that a Cup, but I dont think are as much fun. I had an Integra R for two years, and the Cup is as much fun as that was, which is saying something. The LCR is pricey, id be tempted to look at 2nd hand top notch S3s (I know theyre essentially the same underneath, but I like the S3 a lot more), or perhaps a Jap turbo car for that sort of money.

 

[Paul_P1]

"For track use the CTR has gone around Bedford in 1.24 mins"

Where are you getting that time from, its not in any of the EVO mags I have. Thats quicker than a Ferrari 575 M!

 

[Moby]

^^^^^^^

Maybe its a different variation of the bedford circuit or it was wet with the ferrari or the 575M is sh*te! lol!

 

[rs_ffoc]

Well when I sold the LCR last month really the only cars that I wanted that wouldnt cost the earth was a second hand CTR or the Clio.

Thanks to my little brother buying his first, I really had a chance to push it and to see if I could live with it.

The CTR isnt really a bad car in anyway, I just optd for the cheaper,faster,better specd car... ok it is french but hey thats the only down side .... lol

 

[Moby]

Quote: Originally posted by rs_ffoc on 12 February 2004


The CTR isnt really a bad car in anyway, I just optd for the cheaper,faster,better specd car...






I think the CTR boys are about to get started!

Cheaper - Yes, I agree.

Faster - Wouldnt have thought so, but I am open to your reasoning!

Better Specd - Possibly

 

[J13EOB]

Gotta agree with ya I test drove a ctr just before chrimbo, and still have the 172. I couldnt justify the loss in toys and the extra cash for it. I dont know if its all these raging reviews I have read but I was really looking forward to getting in it had having a blast. But it just didnt blow me away enough.

An quite funny really I went to try get a shot in the Leon at the weekend but nowhere up here has one to test drive, there is only the cupra. An I imagine the difference between the two would be a simmilar difference from the 172 to the cup in relative terms. So untill I can get a test drive its a no goer!

Overall I think Ill wait a few years till Ive paid off more of the clio, an hopefully have more disposable cash for that vx turbo! I would be silly to sell just now I guess as the 172 is only coming up for a year old, so lost the most money this past year.

But damn the clio (172 and cup) as a whole package is a hard car to beat unless you start to spend lotsa money!

 

[Moby]

The increase in size surely has a lot to do with the price increase?

 

[geordiepaul]

Its each to their own I suppose!

I would never have dreamed of buy a CTR a year ago but the 04 model just appealed to me more than the older one did. Its not perfect a by any means! What you have to remember is that they are different sized cars and you can feel it when you drive the 2! I dont believe that the LCR is in the same league as the 172/Cup or CTR (yes some people are gonna disagree but its just my opinion). The LCR has massive tuning potential which is why it appeals to those who like it. Its chassis/steering/gearbox are just not as nice to use the other 2 cars. But as I would never dream of modding a car like that then it kind of ruled it out.

When puch comes to shove I would have probably bought a 182 but I just couldnt justify putting up with dealers in my area so it ruled that out for me.

I opted for the CTR because its reliable and better quality and equally as good as any of the competition!

 

[Brazo]

Quote: Originally posted by Paul_CTR on 12 February 2004


"For track use the CTR has gone around Bedford in 1.24 mins"

Where are you getting that time from, its not in any of the EVO mags I have. Thats quicker than a Ferrari 575 M!

2001 track day of the year evo special, again same circuit as they print it in mag

 

[Paul_P1]

Dont buy it(not the mag), yet again the time is not present in the table at the back of the magazine, why would they leave it out????

 

[Brazo]

^^^^^^^^^^^

Fair enough fella I think weve been here before anyway?!!

 

[rs_ffoc]

Sorry, I didnt mean it to sound like a dig, I was just saying that I looked at these areas when buying the car, I would have thought the 172 vs the CTR are around the same figures as the power to weight thing?

Also you have to agree paying 15/16k for a CTR is not to bad but when you have to add on things like Aircon is in fact a con.

I only need a small car hence the clio..

To be fair the CTR hasnt got anywhere near the same spec as the 172 and just cos they put the gear stick on the center console doesnt justifiy them being tighter than a ducks ar*se.