Gaz_
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The great exhaust debate !
- Thread starter missvavavoom
- Start date
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- Tags
- exhaust
Yum!
182 FF
Yes its me again lads, close to getting a Milltek system i "think".
I have one question , this may cause another heated debate. I am concerned about making too much noise !
What makes an exhaust "Chavvy"? And is a Milltek Chavvy?
Thanks Vix
I have one question , this may cause another heated debate. I am concerned about making too much noise !
What makes an exhaust "Chavvy"? And is a Milltek Chavvy?
Thanks Vix
Yes its me again lads, close to getting a Milltek system i "think".
I have one question , this may cause another heated debate. I am concerned about making too much noise !
What makes an exhaust "Chavvy"? And is a Milltek Chavvy?
Thanks Vix
I have full Miltek, Cat back, not chavvy at all. Infact I forget it is there apart from starting the car and when in full chat.
Sounds nice, but not too boomy and certianly not chavvy.
Iain C
ClioSport Club Member
Stock system for a few quid.
All after mkt exhausts are chavvy
All after mkt exhausts are chavvy
182 FF
All aftermarkets..!
182 FF
I want a little bit of noise but nothing like what Chavs achieve when driving 20mph..
ClioSport 172 Cup
I want to put this myth to rest... A loud exhaust like a Yozza will effect your acceleration and is not the best for performance, it can increase overall BHP but will kill acceleration and low down torque. In a scientific sense the louder an exhaust the more sound energy you are losing which means your engine is losing energy/power. The best exhaust on a road car for performance is a quiet exhaust system.
Megane RS 250
Whate the...sammy where did you learn this cr*p?!
It's true that you want to keep the gas energy as high as possibile, but there are so many elements to consider...
I mean, sound comes from the exhaust pulse from the engine, in the end the internal combustion engine works with small explosions, which creates pressure waves that you hear as noise...if you want the best performance you need as much speed out of the combustion chamber as you can. You use the wave produced by one cylindre to "pull" the exhaust of the next one, so a good manifold is better than a set of pipes, one for each cylinder, with pipes lenght and diameter depending on the engine characteristic.
After that what you need is:
-low backpressure
-low gas inertia
The trick is to find an exhaust that is both very freeflowing but at the same time let the gas come out as fast as possibile, so if you go with large pipes you have low backpressure but high intertia (the gas will be colder, there will be more of it in terms of volume AND density--->mass--->inertia), if you go with small pipes you'll have a lot of backpressure.
Noise is just a consequence, and in a race car you just don't consider this (if there are no noise limits).
If you put a silencer on the exhaust line, you'll have a loss of energy, as the gas goes through the holes in the pipe, it'll get colder, slower, denser and heavier.
A silencer is just a chamber that convert energy (in the form of pressure waves, that you hear as sound) in heat... energy that is lost!
On a road car you try to do this with the highest efficiency you can...but it's still a compromise.
The real reasone behind the fact thay many aftermarket reduce the mid and low torque (and power, as it depends on torque and revs) is because they just are the wrong diameter, usually too big.
In fact, to be specific, if you fit to a completely standard car a 60 mm catback, you lose a bit of torque at low rpm...you can get over that with a sports cat, so you can have the same torque at mid rpm, and higher at high rev.
An exhaust should always be developed with a dyno or at least taking acceleration times in gear and in differen rev range. The best is to measure back pressure before and after the cat so you can work on it and on torque and power values.
It's true that you want to keep the gas energy as high as possibile, but there are so many elements to consider...
I mean, sound comes from the exhaust pulse from the engine, in the end the internal combustion engine works with small explosions, which creates pressure waves that you hear as noise...if you want the best performance you need as much speed out of the combustion chamber as you can. You use the wave produced by one cylindre to "pull" the exhaust of the next one, so a good manifold is better than a set of pipes, one for each cylinder, with pipes lenght and diameter depending on the engine characteristic.
After that what you need is:
-low backpressure
-low gas inertia
The trick is to find an exhaust that is both very freeflowing but at the same time let the gas come out as fast as possibile, so if you go with large pipes you have low backpressure but high intertia (the gas will be colder, there will be more of it in terms of volume AND density--->mass--->inertia), if you go with small pipes you'll have a lot of backpressure.
Noise is just a consequence, and in a race car you just don't consider this (if there are no noise limits).
If you put a silencer on the exhaust line, you'll have a loss of energy, as the gas goes through the holes in the pipe, it'll get colder, slower, denser and heavier.
A silencer is just a chamber that convert energy (in the form of pressure waves, that you hear as sound) in heat... energy that is lost!
On a road car you try to do this with the highest efficiency you can...but it's still a compromise.
The real reasone behind the fact thay many aftermarket reduce the mid and low torque (and power, as it depends on torque and revs) is because they just are the wrong diameter, usually too big.
In fact, to be specific, if you fit to a completely standard car a 60 mm catback, you lose a bit of torque at low rpm...you can get over that with a sports cat, so you can have the same torque at mid rpm, and higher at high rev.
An exhaust should always be developed with a dyno or at least taking acceleration times in gear and in differen rev range. The best is to measure back pressure before and after the cat so you can work on it and on torque and power values.
Last edited:
Christopher
ClioSport Club Member
Z4M
Does shouting whilst accelerating slow you down too?
Christopher
ClioSport Club Member
Z4M
Mine's been on for 55,000 miles with no cracks. But it's only half Milltek I guess.
You seem to be aplying GCSE physics to exhaust systems.....
The exhaust does not 'make' any noise at all.... the noise is from the combustion, the design of the exhaust just dictates what 'sort of noise' it is.
the other half keeps it good. you know what to do.
Thought I'd best put it simply for him.... lol.
GCSE's are the qualifications that 15 / 16 year olds take in the UK.
Inferno 182 & Saxo
No the OP mate, its all gone quiet on that front
Can anyone recommend if its worth sourcing a standard 172 exhaust for my clio, I currently have a Magnex 6x4 cat-back and its far too boomy for my liking but i am aware the standard ones just seem to dissolve off the back of the car. I've tried to listen to youtube but I am still undecided about various aftermarket options, I want something thats very quiet on idle, but when you boot it sounds fairly nice... sorry to sound so vauge, ive been out of the loop for about 4 years now and no idea what all the cool kids are buying!
but i am aware the standard ones just seem to dissolve off the back of the car. I've tried to listen to youtube but I am still undecided about various aftermarket options, I want something thats very quiet on idle, but when you boot it sounds fairly nice... sorry to sound so vauge, ive been out of the loop for about 4 years now and no idea what all the cool kids are buying!
Megane RS 250
Blue, I'm sorry, by now we're developing a 172 system stealth system with 63.6 mm pipes (as the old one was 54 mm, and the race system was too loud). The 182 system we have on sale is already pretty good, with 60mm pipes and 45mm single exit pipes, it showed good results on the dyno:
Stock:
Horsepower 178.9 Hp at 6625 rev/min
Torque 205.4 Nm at 5385 rev/min
Supersprint
- Front exhaust with metallic kat 873332
- Centre exhaust 873303
- Rear exhaust 873304
- Endpipe kit 873316
Actual data
Horsepower 184.3 Hp at 6595 rev/min
Torque 216.7 Nm at 5265 rev/min
http://www.supersprint.com/ISP00rencli21.asp
This is decat+non resonated centre pipe:
As in the new system with the resonated centre exhaust it'll be quiet and comfortable, louder and more aggressive without it. In resonated form, it's E1 homologated, so it's very quiet!
I'd like to make new exits as I know the 90 mm "Magnum" pipes are not for everyone tastes. As they are separated we could replace them very easily with almost any kind of shape, finish and logos.
I'd like 80 mm slash cut exits, chromed but with thin borders, and the RS Supersprint logo, but that's my opinion.
The present exits fill perfectly the arches, plus you can fit them more or less our of the bumper.
To 106: do you want a stealth look or a visibile exit? Do you want to cut the bumper or not?
Stock:
Horsepower 178.9 Hp at 6625 rev/min
Torque 205.4 Nm at 5385 rev/min
Supersprint
- Front exhaust with metallic kat 873332
- Centre exhaust 873303
- Rear exhaust 873304
- Endpipe kit 873316
Actual data
Horsepower 184.3 Hp at 6595 rev/min
Torque 216.7 Nm at 5265 rev/min
http://www.supersprint.com/ISP00rencli21.asp
This is decat+non resonated centre pipe:
As in the new system with the resonated centre exhaust it'll be quiet and comfortable, louder and more aggressive without it. In resonated form, it's E1 homologated, so it's very quiet!
I'd like to make new exits as I know the 90 mm "Magnum" pipes are not for everyone tastes. As they are separated we could replace them very easily with almost any kind of shape, finish and logos.
I'd like 80 mm slash cut exits, chromed but with thin borders, and the RS Supersprint logo, but that's my opinion.
The present exits fill perfectly the arches, plus you can fit them more or less our of the bumper.
To 106: do you want a stealth look or a visibile exit? Do you want to cut the bumper or not?
Last edited by a moderator:
Doesnt have to be stealth, maybe single 3.5 without cutting the bumper? I had a scorpion system on my GTi years ago and it was awesome... this magnex just sounds like its got a hole in it
Thanks for all help
Can anyone recommend if its worth sourcing a standard 172 exhaust for my clio, I currently have a Magnex 6x4 cat-back and its far too boomy for my liking
Look at a yozza stealth or btb stealth mate. The best options for what you've described IMO.
Excellent thankyou very much, I am re-joining membership on this great site shortly maybe get a good deal? I'm in the north east would I need a specalist to fit such a system? (sorry for idiotic questions)
Megane RS 250
We still have the "under bumper" oval exit rear exhaust:
http://www.supersprint.com/public/images/16425.jpg
This is a photoshop of how it looks on the car:
http://www.supersprint.com/public/images/33737.jpg
For Fred: ahah I think we have different concepts of "loud"!
What do you say about the 187 video I posted above, is that loud or not?
This is my car with the k-tec mild steel...and it's too loud for my taste:
http://win.clubminitalia.com/vari/Clio_accelerazione.avi
Not so much ouside but inside I just get tired at constant speed above 120 km/h.
http://www.supersprint.com/public/images/16425.jpg
This is a photoshop of how it looks on the car:
http://www.supersprint.com/public/images/33737.jpg
For Fred: ahah I think we have different concepts of "loud"!
What do you say about the 187 video I posted above, is that loud or not?
This is my car with the k-tec mild steel...and it's too loud for my taste:
http://win.clubminitalia.com/vari/Clio_accelerazione.avi
Not so much ouside but inside I just get tired at constant speed above 120 km/h.
If you get a yozza, they're apparently very very easy to fit....
BTB, I don't know about fitting.
The build quality of both of them is superb so you shouldn't have any troubles.
The advantage the yozza has though is that they're built to order, so if you give Fred @ btm a call, he can help you through the process.
We all know i rarely compliment another exhaust, if it isn't a yozza i'm not interested - my general response
the BTB is a lovley bit of kit, quality is spot on, and fit is very good, downsides are its heavy
every other system available - no thanks (apart from suspersprint, they are proper!)
the BTB is a lovley bit of kit, quality is spot on, and fit is very good, downsides are its heavy
every other system available - no thanks (apart from suspersprint, they are proper!)
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