Does it come in that early, just assumed the advance at just after 5k is the vvc swapping over but before that was disengaged, you learn something new every day!!! It's already running ps3's so has got decent tyres on there, no other suspension upgrades hence my other thread about cup suspension and how much difference it's makes. Cheers chaps, food for thought. Read rs tuner gave a bit more lower down torque but would like to know some rough numbers to a standard/lightly modded car, to be honest I think I need to explore the cars grip and engine a bit more, when driving a type r I always found that very harsh running up to vtec, clio is better at lower revs. Guess I have to remember I have not got a turbo anymore!!!