Throttle bodies on 182

[ciaran1380]

I was just thinking about getting a project going for the winter. I was going to investigate the possibility of running throttle bodies off another car or bike on the clio. Obviously they will have to be the correct size etc. Maybe something like off a toyota 20v blacktop? Or modifying something off a japbike and space them out to fit the clio?

I havnt really put much thought into it as you can probably tell, and Im sure somebody has tried it. I have a 1380 mini cooper running off motorbike throttle bodies, so it can be done . Ive one question though, without sounding like a idiot as I dont know much about the Fuel control on the 182 but why do most aftermarket systems run a after market ECU? Is it because they are running some mad cam profile or is it because the 182 ECU doesnt have the software needed?

 

[Fred@BTM]

182 is FBW, so hence won't work with a cable throttle

 

[Chip-mk1]

I was just thinking about getting a project going for the winter. I was going to investigate the possibility of running throttle bodies off another car or bike on the clio. Obviously they will have to be the correct size etc. Maybe something like off a toyota 20v blacktop? Or modifying something off a japbike and space them out to fit the clio?

I havnt really put much thought into it as you can probably tell, and Im sure somebody has tried it. I have a 1380 mini cooper running off motorbike throttle bodies, so it can be done . Ive one question though, without sounding like a idiot as I dont know much about the Fuel control on the 182 but why do most aftermarket systems run a after market ECU? Is it because they are running some mad cam profile or is it because the 182 ECU doesnt have the software needed?

Its that exactly mate, the 182 and even the earlier 172 (and for that matter the williams as well!) are using a fueling algorythm that uses manifold pressure as primary load, where as with the weird pulses going on especially at small throttle angles on an ITB setup you will struggle to hold a steady MAP reading, so you are far better off swapping to an ECU that allows you to use TPS input instead when running bodies.

With the mini you must also be on aftermarket anyway though if you are on bodies?

How have you arranged them out of interest?
Are you still on the standard 5 port head, as if so obviously no more than 2 throttle plates is useable in the first place?

 

[ciaran1380]

Yea the mini is a aftermarket ECU, uses a Canems system. Its still on a 5 port head so getting a steady MAP reading off it is difficult especially with the 286 cam. Running two Throttle bodies with two massive injectors to try eliminate charge robbing by brute force lol. The canems system allows both MAP and TPS but Im using the TPS on the mini.

 

[ciaran1380]

Forgot about that , could changing to a 172 ECU work or again are these different? as you can tell, Im just thinking out loud and I dont know a whole lot about the clios unfortunatley

 

[Fred@BTM]

not really no, its been done, but wasn't perfect

 

[ciaran1380]

not really no, its been done, but wasn't perfect

So what ECU would you recommend? I cant believe the prices of some of the systems!

 

[Fred@BTM]

how long's a piece of string? pick one!

 

[Chip-mk1]

So what ECU would you recommend? I cant believe the prices of some of the systems!

Well the Canems you have although not particuarly great would work, so at least you could use that to get up and running without spending much money.


ANY aftermarket ECU though basically, I cant think of a single one available that wouldnt run an ITB clio just fine.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Forgot about that , could changing to a 172 ECU work or again are these different? as you can tell, Im just thinking out loud and I dont know a whole lot about the clios unfortunatley

Would solve the fly by wire problem but not any of the real issues.

And the only 172 ecu that isnt fly by wire is the phase 1 (the ugly headlight shape clio) and that isnt anywhere near a direct swap with your loom etc. So it would be a load of work just to end up with something rubbish anyway.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Yea the mini is a aftermarket ECU, uses a Canems system. Its still on a 5 port head so getting a steady MAP reading off it is difficult especially with the 286 cam. Running two Throttle bodies with two massive injectors to try eliminate charge robbing by brute force lol. The canems system allows both MAP and TPS but Im using the TPS on the mini.

I assume the injectors are massive so that you can fire just during the induction stroke timebase as if you overlap it to the other cylces like typically happens it would then result in uneven cylinder filling as one cylinder on each port sees far more of the "dead" time than the other?

 

[ciaran1380]

Well the Canems you have although not particuarly great would work, so at least you could use that to get up and running without spending much money.


ANY aftermarket ECU though basically, I cant think of a single one available that wouldnt run an ITB clio just fine.

Could use one map for the clio and another for the mini, just carry it across haha, look like i'll have to do a bit more thinking.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Could use one map for the clio and another for the mini, just carry it across haha, look like i'll have to do a bit more thinking.

Exactly, then when you have finished buy a second one so both cars have their own and at least if you have a problem you can borrow the other as a spare.

 

[ciaran1380]

Exactly, then when you have finished buy a second one so both cars have their own and at least if you have a problem you can borrow the other as a spare.

Gives me somethig to keep busy with over the winter along with a mountain of welding on the mini

I see you run 197 cams in your car, how do you find them?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Lol had lots of minis myself so I know what you mean there! (still got a couple but not anywhere near being on the road)

The 197 cams work well at the top end of the rev range with the RS2 inlet, but they do lose your midrange.
I think on the new car we will probably just retime the standard cams instead as its not got the bits it needs to rev like the old one (arps/supertech valves etc)