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Ben
I dont know of any body that has them but I did cost them up for my 172. Deamon Tweeks do them aNd prices start at £1500 + VAT This was for the complete kit.
Paul
basic kits come in at around 1500, nick hill(hillpower) does them accompanied with cams and performance cylinder head for around 2500 or 4500 for the proper conversion, bottom end, relocated radiator etc. etc. wouldnt bother mate, thought about it myself but hoping to go down either the nitrous route(prefer not to) or the turbo conversion
on standard 4cylinder production engines, the cars have a single throttle body(throttle plate). however, you can purchase 4 individual throttle bodies, one for each cylinder, that way each cylinder has its own air feed as such, rather than sharing plenum with the other cylinders. the old perfromance carbs, like twin webbers 45dcoe use this setup.
an inlet manifold for the 16v is available in two flavours, one thats quite long, gives better torque, but fouls the rad wen the tbs r fitted. or theres a shorter version, wich nick hill uses i think, which enbales the standard radto be used. ive seen the inlet mans onsale for 175quid. then youll need the individual throttle bodies, these total about 300-500quid for all 4. then youll need sum additonal injectors; 21turbo, laguna v6, sumthing of higher flow rates will work, while keepin the same impedence as standard.
then youl need to spedn about 200-300quid on ancillaries, like linkages and gaskets, and piping
as for managment, id use a dastek unichip, can control all the fuelling and igniton needs, without the need to spedn 2grand on a standalone ecu. plus that way, ud keep the use of ur onboards trip computer!
theres plenty of fast 2litre 16v astras running 200-220bhp. 13.8seconds down the strip at santa pod ent too slow!!!!!
a 1.8 16v with tbs sum wilder cams, decent head work, ud see about 190-200bhp, and about 140/150lb of torque. mmmmmmm
jimbo
coolspot007007
ClioSport Club Member
Seat Leon Cupra
I was gonna post that, but itd just remind me i want one.
coolspot007007
ClioSport Club Member
Seat Leon Cupra
(lumenition)
Well as you might know, I *seriously* looked into this a few weeks ago when sizing up my options for an engine rebuild. Best bet to me seemed to be a Weber Alpha kit - tailored for the Clio 16v and as far as I can see includes *everything* you need. Im sure you could mess about scraping all the bits together and trying to get them to work properly with each other, but why bother when for £1500 Weber do all the hard work for you, including Alpha management, wiring, linkages, manifold, throttle bodies, injectors etc. As long as youre handy with the spanners its a DIY job then a few hours on the rollers to set up? Im no authority on this but it doesnt look like too bad a job if youve got the facilities to do it and time on your hands.
From what I learnt, its a bit of a waste doing the TBs without going to a 285 billet cam profile (ie one up from the usual fast road reprofiled cams).
I dont know about the clio kit but I have bought a set for my Vauxhall 16v mini conversion. In total it costs me about £2200 which included everything including uprated fuel pump, wide range lambda sensor, ecu, new injectors, etc. I made my own exhaust manifold which saved alot of money but is essential to get the full potential from the kit. Bolting it to a standard engine will give 208bhp (150bhp as standard). A few lads from my mini club have done turbo conversions on throttle bodies so it is possible.
MKII Vee
Prima Racing do a kit
http://www.primaracing.com/clio.htmhttp://www.primaracing.com/clio.htm
also do a turbo conversion for £9000 I might get 2
TBs are teh only major step to getting real power from your engine....OE plenhams just wont cut it.....you need one choke per cylinder.
In nxt months mini mag thre is a 2ltr XE motor on TBs with a turbo so have a look...its neat.
and nick, the webber gold package is probably the abst solution for a quick installation, and it will eb a tad abot £1500 as the bronze alone is £980.
insatllation is easy.......easier than sidedraught carbs as you donthave to mucha bout with float levels etc.....slap it on (literally), a little bit of wirering and get it setup......
OH, and you dont need to go crazy with the cam profile....itll give great gains on a std motor. more than any bolt on stuff can.
head angle......
surely the actual angle the head sits on the block is the same...and its the manifold face that not as inclined on the 1.8 as it is on the 2ltr. But that shoud be simple enough to get round with designing the right manifold.
But its the fiorst i have heard that the actual casting of 7Ps and 7Rs were different. Could anybody actually measure the port diameters, as i know valve sizes are sightly larger on the 2ltr.
But for what reason would the 2ltr be any diff from the 1.8?
oh, dont post with the obvious please haha.
Let me make a few points clear to you all. We have indeed done a throttle body conversion for the Clio 16v. What we found during development was that the clio16v and williams have got to large an inlet port to produce good mid range and top end power. The gas speed in the manifoldis just not quick enough to fill the cylinders to a max. Imagine as the piston is moving down the cylinder with the inlet valve open air is being sucked into the cylinder froma large area port, because of the large volume movement of air is relatively slow so by the time the piston is on its way back up the cylinder the gas speed is still relatively poor , air is still being drawn into the cylinder even though the piston is moving upwards . A lower rpm (mid range) the effects are worse than higher rpm. This is because of the gas speed in the port. (if you had the right bits to rev the engine to 8,500 as the touring cars did you would get good good power. Renault ran over 200bhp with the Laguna). We then tried a different head with much smaller inlet ports. Imagine again the piston going down the cylinder as the volume in the port is far smaller the air will be drawn in faster with a much better gas speed a greater amount of air will be drawn into the cylinder as the piston moves up. The more air in the cylinder the bigger the explosion ther more power and torque you get. When we swapped head during development on the dyno we saw an increase of 35lbs ft of torque below 5,000 rpm and an increase of 25bhp at peak power The end result on the dyno was an engine producing 180lbs ft of torque with more than 85% of peak torque showing from 2,500 and max bhp at 6,750 of 210bhp. Pre modded head the torque did not reach 85% of max until 4,300 and was then way down and peak power was reached at 7200 with only 185 and a ver very lumpy idle. Our conclusion was that yes we can fit throttle bodies for anyone to a std engine but I think not many people would be happy with the result when actually driving the car. So we would only do a throttle body conversion if accompanied with a totaly different head fully ported with cams and verniers. For the car installation we also replace the radiator with one we have specially made . This sits lower than std and allows a free passage of air from the front of the car straight into the air filter so as not to draw warm air into the engine from the rad. There is a bit more to it than the head swap and how I have briefly explained part of the reason why we do what we do this is the reason for the high expense of our Throttle body conversion. At the end of the day everone must decide for themselves which way they want to modify their car and if anyone wants to go the t/b route this is our approach.
WHY R U SHOUTING!!!??
hmmmm....thhose are some very odd and interesting findings.....and the dabate over gas velocity and max flow has raged on for ages. And nicks finding have cleared up a bit on the F7 head design.
The blue top toyota 4age engine had the same prob where the inlets were so larre, either a TVIS system or tig welding then re-porting the inlets to the best shape/size was done.
i would assume that the same is done on the F7......
BUT, what i dont understand is how a smaller port increased TOP end power...i can understand low rpm gains in torque through faster cylinder filling.......BUT a gain at the top......surely gas velocity on the std head would be fine for top end only race engines, and even a tad small.
Was this an all out power engine or a compramise engine where some lower rpm torque was needed......as with a full race item, max flow could be achieved with more than enough velocity?
Then why did renault make it like that? explains the valvers lack of torque though.
indeed!
the 4ages i learnt off came in 2 types. red top and blue top, one had ports that were pretty well suited, and one had ports that were so large that you really done need to touch them AT ALL EVER! anyway, it had the TVIS system and the ports are far larger on that 1.6 than teh F7 1.8 head.....funny.....but then, the f7 dont rev as high.....id like to hear why.