Throttle bodies using standard 182 ECU?

[racedan]

funny you should say that but i got mine for 300 lol and manifold is 130 quid lol, the jenveys wont found a rs2, so thats 400 quid i can get a decent emanage ulitmate wire it myself and there 300-400 quid, jenvey tps sensor 50 quid, ive got the peddle and cable then just the mapping

 

[Chip-mk1]

Good price on the jenveys, hope it works out well for you, deffo go for aftermarket ECU while you are doing it.

 

[Dan519]

piggyback ECU like emanage won't work properly, they confuse the stock ECU long term trim values basically.

 

[racedan]

must be a way round guys i dont mean to sound snotty but me and few mates have been playing with alot of ecus since our teen days so theres proberly away, if not will be the motec as can get one cheap and a friends good at maping them or it will be the gold emanage as this aint a piggy back, but you guys have been good help, i would love a rs2 tbh as its just bolt on an map ect but there so expensive i might just stick to the stock ecu for now fund a cage then worry next year about a ecu,

running 2 cars and a recovery truck with trade insurance aint cheap an having a little daughter who wants lots for xmas aint cheap either lol

 

[Chip-mk1]

As I mentioned far earlier on in this thread, the stock ECU is a speed/density based setup, that means its maps are based on intake pressure and RPM, for throttle bodies you DONT want that sort of ECU.

So just fit an aftermarket that will take throttle as the main load parameter, even the most basic old aftermarket will do this just fine.

 

[racedan]

what is the most power run on the stock ecu with jenveys????? an what is it that makes things a b*****d i mean if you set up a tps all your doing is ditching the fly by wire, or cant the stock ecu handle the fueling changes ???

 

[Chip-mk1]

You REALLY arent getting this, peak power is no problem at all, at peak power the intake pressure is the same as atmospheric anyway essentially, so for full throttle you would be fine on the stock ECU.

The problem is everywhere other than full throttle.

If you are at 10% throttle for example, the stock ecu will be expecting to see a big vacuum at that throttle angle, but how are you going to show it a vacuum on a set of throttle bodies reliably?

You have to run a vacuum takeoff after the throttle plate, and then the problem that you get is that it will be very pulsey at low rpm, because induction stroke events are relatively infrequent, and its this pulsing that will cause the ECU to fuel wrongly and you CANT accurately map around it because the value you are trying to map will be pulsing up and down.
Some people try and smooth it by joining the 4 together, but the problem is then the 3 that arent at vacuum end up bleeding into the one that is. Its all just a massive lashup really.


You say you have a friend who maps, ask them if they have ever mapped a standard clio ECU, and if they have a complete definition file for one, if they say yes then you will be able to get it to just about work but it wont ever be great, and if they havent then you have no chance really.

 

[jon_r]

Just to add to this, I bought a lot of the stuff that Russ used on his and it sat on my shelf for about 18 months. I sold it all to a local guy who did get his car up and running again on it all after a bit of leg work. As far as I'm aware it didn't run perfectly but he got a full tb setup for £400 + his own costs. Not bad really.

Sometimes people aren't fussed about having a car running 100% all the time, but even so, I'd still suggest you buy aftermarket!

 

[racedan]

sorry just noticed u posted just before me i didnt see this as we posted the same time so let me catch up lol i get it im just trying to make it as cheap as possible as i dont agree with running or copying what every one elses runs i want to try and be different do my own set up and work with a ecu no ones worked with before lol im a jap an french man

 

[racedan]

thanks for your help chip and good advice, no hes not worked with a clio but if u dont try u dont get, hes very clever if you know james skyers hes on my facebook he mapped my starlet and loads of jap cars, even mapped sumos 1300bhp drag monster, so hes always helped me at sumo thats how i got to know him an became good friends as im local to sumo and i know the owner james rumary ect so most cars ive had theyve all used to play with for mapping and rolling roads to get the best out out them, i will keep you all updated


idealy need to start my own thread up so i guess i will do this in a few days thanks for all your help guys all taken in to account and will all help me choose what i plan to do

 

[Dan@SJM]

It's not so much being good at mapping, it's knowing where the maps are.

 

[racedan]

thats what mappers are good at any one can map a car with a base map but if you want it to run right and last then you need to know what your doing lol

thanks again guys for all your good advise and help other wise i would be still left pulling my hair out lol

 

[Chip-mk1]

Dan means when you open up the file you won't know which value does what. Its not labelled. So you have to spend hundreds or even thousands of hours working it out.

Having mapped loads of other cars doesn't help you, that's what I was on about with having a definition file, without that he is screwed really unless he has a LOT of time on his hands.

 

[fake ben taylor]

No you couldn't - nowhere near

Cheapest set of 2nd hand Jenveys you will find is a grand on it's own. Then a really cheap ecu will be a few hundred on top and you'll need loom and mapping.

What's the point in doing it if you don't have the budget and want to bodge everything?
Flog the Jenveys, buy and RS2 - job done

My jenveys were £630. All I need is a tps, filter and ecu. All in it will be cheaper than an rs2.

Things can be done cheaply without bodging. Fraum what I've seen trawling the forum the RS2 isn't all that great.

 

[Bobby.]

How easy is it to get hold of a definition file chip? Is it something that could be emailed across or is their more involved than that?

 

[midge]

I Bought Russ's car and drove it for a few weeks, it worked and was fast but didnt drive well at low speeds - very jumpy, part throttle was okish. I put it on DTA stand alone in the end.

 

[Cup_Phil]

My jenveys were £630. All I need is a tps, filter and ecu. All in it will be cheaper than an rs2.

Things can be done cheaply without bodging. Fraum what I've seen trawling the forum the RS2 isn't all that great.

Yessss...... but Omex and loom will be £600 and a good map will be £3-400. You also need a decent backing plate to clear the injectors and filter - which is £150ish
Which is knocking on the door of £2k..

Yes you can scrimp and save and do things different to everyone else and on a budget - but I don't see the point as you wont get a good setup or the proper power that they're capable of.

If money is tight I still say get an RS2 - put it on your car yourself, and chuck a map on the standard ECU. 90% of the power gain you'd get with Jenveys and no hassle at all.
Jenveys + cheap bodge ecu + dashboard lit up like a christmas tree + constantly failing MOT's. It's all just hassle for the sake of saving a few quid.

 

[fake ben taylor]

I won't be getting an ecu which lights the dash up like a Xmas tree. Backing plate was included with the itbs.

Like I said, doing things cheaply doesnt mean bodged and not as good, just gotta have a bit of common sense and keep an ear to the ground

 

[racedan]

My jenveys were £630. All I need is a tps, filter and ecu. All in it will be cheaper than an rs2.

Things can be done cheaply without bodging. Fraum what I've seen trawling the forum the RS2 isn't all that great.

bloody hell were your jenveys new ??? can i asked how you worked out that your set up will be cheaper the a rs2

the rs2 is 1150 on a group buy youve brought jenveys for 600 so thats half a rs2, an second hand tps sensor for a jenvey is around 50 quid a filter is gonna be 50 so thats 700 then youve got a ecu again you might be able to get a second hand one but a standalones going to be any were from 300-600, then you got the mapping so its about the same if your budgeting

personally i think the rs2 is great from the power gains you can get from it if i hadent got these jenveys and manifold cheap i wouldent be using jenveys as i was going to go down the bike tb set up as you can get the manifolds for 100 and tbs for the same then a ecu for few hundred so you could really be running on tbs for 500-600 quid for a nice 20ish bhp gain

 

[racedan]

we all know mots are never a problem!!!!! lol i will be doing every thing proberly i just wont be spending 1000s on a ecu like some just to get the same gain as the cheaper ones thats all im trying to say, there will be ecus out there that no ones tried, back in the day most of my car mates all have greddy ecus as they dont just do piggy backs there just not as dear as omex ect

reason im doing it this way is i can buy bit by bit and still maintain my other cars pay my bills take my daughter out and buy her things ect, with the rs2 its either you pay one lump or dont have it lol theres like 2 ways of buying a rs2 buy the rs2 and the ecu and there both big money, my jenveys were 300 with injectors, then manifold and then ecu so its like 3 cheaper payments lol

 

[Chip-mk1]

How easy is it to get hold of a definition file chip? Is it something that could be emailed across or is their more involved than that?

Pretty much impossible. It IS just as easy as emailing it across. But good luck finding anyone who has invested the money in developing it and then wants to give it away!

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[Chip-mk1]

By the way racedan, if you are keeping the 182 Ecu then keep the electronic throttle body and adapt it to activate the itb's mechanism. Ecu will almost certainly not like losing it and ending up with a ph1 Ecu.

Unless your time has no value though. This wil be an expensive project compared to just going cheap aftermarket and that would be far better anyway.