turbo conversion help

[robclio16v]

heya all , work has picked up so im starting to gather parts for a turbo conversion on my 05 plate 1.2 16v clio,

i know you will all say why bother but its something i want to do , and all im asking for is abit of help wiv specific things . first off :

engine spec

1. custom low comp pistons, rings and clips (£400)
2. twingo/clio 1.2 tce exhaust manifold + turbo
3. stainless braided oil lines
4. custom prospeed exhaust downpipe
5. prospeed stainless cat back exhaust system (done)
6. fmic + custom boost pipes (£500 fully suplied and fitted)

my questions are :

. because i wont be using twingo/clio tce managment what is the best aftermarket ecu you would recomend for around £500??

. how do i work out the engines standard compression ratio so i can have the new pistons made of a lower compression??

. is an aftermarket oil cooler nesecary ? or would you recomend it for saftey?

. do i need the cams reprofiled to suit the turbo ? or will it run on standard cams but produce less power tha reprofiled cams?

. where do i connect my map sensor ?

thanks for any CONSTRUCTIVE help .

rob

(oh and its not all about massive power , modding a car is about being different)

 

[Barron]

buy a 172/182 engine.

 

[Christopher]

Sounds interesting, and at least you're going about it properly.

 

[robclio16v]

yer i want it to built properly so it would last, no point in having a nice car that dont work lol,i could have done a 172 conversion but it would still be more expensive to run than a 1.2 turbo and still dearer to insure lol , for me to insure my 1.2 with the turbo converison it works out £400 dearer thats all lol , . so far we have 3 cars going to be built , a mitsubishi colt 1.3 turbo, a toyota starlet 1.3 with a custom conversion , and my clio which will soon be joining them lol .

 

[cat171]

buy a 172/182 engine.

I echo that comment, or buy a 172/182.

Tbh I can see that you want to go about the conversion the right way, but tbh you won't get that much extra from it, if your keeping it a 1200cc even with the turbo I think you'll be looking at about 120 bhp. Imo for the expenditure & hassle of the fabrication of bits etc it's not worth it, tbh 120bhp on the road today isn't that much really.

I do appreciate that it's something you want to do, in all seriousness i'd go for a 172/182 engine conversion.

 

[robclio16v]

thanks for the comments , alot of the fabrication can be done cheaply by mates, the onli real expensive part is ecu mapping and pistons

 

[Andyman]

Your already a 100+ bhp down from a 172 / 182 before you even start this!

Add up the cost of a standalone (1k ball park figure fitted and mapped?) plus all the other bits for the conversion and you wont be far off 3k and still off the pace of a 172.

 

[robclio16v]

im not after the pace of a 172 etc im just looking to do sumthing different, im just after a fun, faster car that is still cheap to insure and cheap to run , i kno for a greedy piggy back ecu for £130 second hand in perfect condition, a friend of mine does mapping at home and a local company has a dyno to use for £40. i have a front mount, boost gauges etc from my astra left over .

 

[sideways danny]

I like this idea nice to see someone doing it their own way

I dont think you'll get worthwhile management for £500 though. Modern renault ECUs have a degree of self learning and seem to re-adjust themselves if you use piggyback management (like the Greddy E-manage).

Going from NA to forced induction will IMO need standalone, Omex being that which is best equiped for renaults

 

[cat171]

im not after the pace of a 172 etc im just looking to do sumthing different, im just after a fun, faster car that is still cheap to insure and cheap to run , i kno for a greedy piggy back ecu for £130 second hand in perfect condition, a friend of mine does mapping at home and a local company has a dyno to use for £40. i have a front mount, boost gauges etc from my astra left over .

Not being funny, but you say that now, you'll soon get used to the turbo'd 1.2's power. Then you'll want more.
I'd go for more bhp in the first place tbh.

 

[robclio16v]

cheers for the help , yer im really stuk on managment atm lol , but il keep on looking lol, on the bright side i have just picked up a set of grey cobra daytona's (recliners) ??? and sparco 3 point harnesses off a neighbour for a very very cheap price, they need a gd clean and a little rip repaired but otherwise they look sound,

 

[robclio16v]

i kno what u mean when u say il want more power eventually but for the time being the 1.2 turbo will do , i also have a 210bhp astra to use lol so i got the power there when i get bored

 

[Olly1.216v]

whats everyones problem, hes wants a 1.2 turbo not a 2 litre? let him do it, its differnt theres already loads of 2 litre conversions there boring now.

I think its a good idea goodluck with it all mate

 

[BenR]

use the stock ecu.

and supercharge it, it'll be easier, cheaper and more reliable.

 

[Adey.]

will be pimp, i wouldnt be using the 1.2 turbo tho, also there are 2 diff turbos listed for the twingo already, think its a borg warner kp35 and the other looks like a td25 framed turbo, tell you what ill check what mine is when the new twingo gt turns up this weekend. if your going to do it id look at a slightly bigger framed turbo to start with, ure going to have to lift the block out to tap it for an oil feed and return for the turbo too. omex 600 would e fine running ure setup but you might need to look at the size of ure injectors

 

[Maxx]

tbh it might just be cheaper to just transplant the Twingo turbo engine in

 

[agithegreat]

Fair play for doing something different and not fitting into this class of folks who would only have their car!

 

[cat171]

whats everyones problem, hes wants a 1.2 turbo not a 2 litre? let him do it, its differnt theres already loads of 2 litre conversions there boring now.

I think its a good idea goodluck with it all mate

I do see where your coming from with it being different, however we're trying to say that there is more bang for your buck out there, hence the 2.0 conversion.

How are 2.0 conversions boring ?? There are probably only a handful on here tbh, also why do folk do them ?? They do them because they make sense and they work.

I do wish the dude luck.

 

[robclio16v]

i was looking at transplanting a twingo gt lump straight in but its a nightmare to find one lol , when i can find parts relativly easy, is it possible to use the standard ecu then if i was to supercharge it? but then wouldnt the gains be even smaller than with a turbo conversion?? i could use the turbo off my old astra and make a manifold adaptor plate to fit it (t2 i fink ) .. as for oil feeds etc they are going to be the most difficult part imo as i have to remove the block. not a problem but fiddly lol, cheers guys anyway and thanks for all ur help, i see everyones opinions fairly ...

 

[BenR]

Using a charger you wont have to mod the block, you wont needa new ex manifold or system, you'll only need to mount it and build the boost plumbing and IC.

Stock management should be able to be manipulated, standalone is a large extra cost.

Superchargers are also more gentle on engines/clutches/gearbox's, no big torque spikes and a linear poewr curve (if your using a centrifugal). It will also allow you to produce a higher peak power figure without damaging the engine, infact you could probably run it on a stock engine with similar if not better results to a built up T2 powered engine.

 

[robclio16v]

oooooo a charger sounds nice, as im not very experienced with superchargers tho,could you tell me some of the better chargers available and what to look out for etc ??/

 

[Tom@JMS]

I think its cool your doing this, tbh you could buy a 172/182 straight up but that would be like buying a airfix model prebuilt - and wheres the fun in that!

A relative of mine built a Caterham kit (think thats right may of been a westfield?) and loved building it more than driving it - so some people just love tinkering!

 

[robclio16v]

lol thanks mate, im even thinking of going back to college or similar to help me progress further with my intrest in motorsports and tuning lol, after comparing a few idea's its between a low boost supercharger setup or a full out turbo conversion , .............. the onli real advantage of supercharging is cost .... so im thinking lol,.. would the supercharger off a mini cooper s be ok to use with custom pipework and mounts~??

 

[Adey.]

anythings possible bud, the supercharger that minis use is an eaton type roots charger ( i think) theres plenty of info out there on the net, you just need to look. good luck man

 

[BenR]

The mini charger is a positive displacement item. The benefits would be higher initial torque at lower rpm, so better off idle performance. However its physically larger and less efficient at higher rpm and once boost starts to build, high charge temps. It will be harder to fit into the available space unless you fabricate a new inlet manifold to which you can bolt direct to. However this will not allow you to run an intercooler which limits performance. But they are only £200 or so, so the money you save on them can be used elsewhere.

Centrifugal units like a rotrex are expensive, about £1500 new, but offer better peak power and a more gentle torque curve which clutches and gearbox's like. They basically feel like a really fast NA engine since the power increase is with RPM. They are easier to install as they are smaller and you can build a more traditional boost piping system and IC, much like a turbo setup. You can typically make more peak bhp with one of these than a small turbo or positive displacement charger on the same engine.

Dont start getting yourself confused with 'boost'. Boost is relative and is only a measurement of restriction. The centrifugal chargers can make upto 18psi boost.