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Tyres rolling over, stiffer suspension needed?



  Clio 182
I'm running R888R's on a set of 15's on my 182 with standard cup suspension. During a track day on Friday, I noticed that I seem to be wearing the sidewall slightly. I run the tyres at 30psi hot so I don't think it's because the pressure is too low?

I'm wondering whether it's because the standard cup suspension is too soft for the tyres and whether something stiffer might help? I don't care about 'lows' and don't want a cheap nasty set of coilovers so I'm looking at the Cooksport springs, do you think a set of these would help?

Has anyone else come across this issue?

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imprezaworks

ClioSport Club Member
  Mk5 Golf GTI :)
@JB21

How old are your shocks? I'd aim for new and new springs. I haven't taken my car on track but the H&r springs are great on the road.

Car looks great btw
 

JamesBryan

ClioSport Club Member
You need more negative camber basically.

As the suspension is rolling to one side it'll be getting more positive camber leading to sidewall wear.

A set of springs and some camber bolts would be the best place to start.
 
  Clio 182
Thanks @imprezaworks
One of the shocks was leaking for an MOT 4 years ago so presumably replaced or ran out of fluid but other than that, could be original!

I should have added that I'm already using camber bolts and had it set up on a proper laser alignment with as much negative camber as possible, I think it was about 1.5 degrees from what I can remember... Would the springs help or do you think I need more negative camber as well? If so, how?
 

JamesBryan

ClioSport Club Member
Going with lower springs will automatically give you a bit more camber, so that would be the first thing to try. Then get the alignment done again once lowered. Max out the camber bolts really.
 
  Clio 182
How much more negative camber do you think something like Cooksports would give? What is usually the next step for more camber?
 
As above, new shocks, lowering springs and re-alignment and you'll be sound, maybe change the tyres as well as they look near done. I can get up to - 2.40 with AMAX springs and camber bolts
 
  Clio 182
Thanks guys.
@STEVE.M What are standard pressures for R888R's? I definitely don't have blankets... I ran the older set of R888's a bit higher and the middle wore down first so did a bit of research people suggested 30 hot but maybe the new tyre type needs to be a bit higher...
 
id give camber bolts a try first mate, i was there with a mate on friday too in the blue 172 cup, he was running eibach bolts on full negative camber, didnt seem to have any tyre roll over like that,

also running standard shocks with grams springs
 
  Clio 182
Thanks, I'm already running eibach camber bolts at max so I'll up the pressures a bit and look at springs. What's the next step for more negative camber? Top mounts?
 

Jon46

ClioSport Club Member
  BG FF 182
You need more negative camber basically.

As the suspension is rolling to one side it'll be getting more positive camber leading to sidewall wear.

A set of springs and some camber bolts would be the best place to start.

I agree. On a track you push the limits of the suspension much more beyond its intend design....road.

Get the alignment checked, adjusted with camber bolts and youll see an immediate improvement. When I had my 200SX, I updated the suspension (Nismo) but all was not right. I got a proper alignment check and it made a world of difference.

Nice to see a Clio with the tripod stance :up:
 

imprezaworks

ClioSport Club Member
  Mk5 Golf GTI :)
How much are standard shocks adjustable too? People who run 2 plus have coilovers I think?
 
  Clio 182
Get the alignment checked, adjusted with camber bolts and youll see an immediate improvement. When I had my 200SX, I updated the suspension (Nismo) but all was not right. I got a proper alignment check and it made a world of difference.

Nice to see a Clio with the tripod stance :up:

Thanks, I fitted eibach camber bolts last year and then got the whole car alignment done, could it have moved that much already or is it just still not enough negative camber?

Are new top mounts worth considering along with Cooksport springs and cup dampers?
 
  PH2 172
Thanks guys.
@STEVE.M What are standard pressures for R888R's? I definitely don't have blankets... I ran the older set of R888's a bit higher and the middle wore down first so did a bit of research people suggested 30 hot but maybe the new tyre type needs to be a bit higher...
34 front, 30 rear, cold, they won`t roll on the sidewalls to disintegration that way.
 

Jon46

ClioSport Club Member
  BG FF 182
Thanks, I fitted eibach camber bolts last year and then got the whole car alignment done, could it have moved that much already or is it just still not enough negative camber?

Are new top mounts worth considering along with Cooksport springs and cup dampers?
 

Jon46

ClioSport Club Member
  BG FF 182
Have you kerbed the wheels badly? That could have thrown the alignment out. I doubt it myself.

Probably needs more camber..........or you need to turn down your enthusiasm :tongueclosed::up:
 

Jon46

ClioSport Club Member
  BG FF 182
Another thing to consider are the suspension bushes. Are they standard, in good condition? Have you replaced them with poly bushes or similar?

The ultimate for track use would be rose jointed suspension. But considering its still a road car, that would be impractical, as rose joints would rattle out your fillings, before you got above 20 mph :tonguewink:
 
  PH2 172
Thanks, I fitted eibach camber bolts last year and then got the whole car alignment done, could it have moved that much already or is it just still not enough negative camber?

Are new top mounts worth considering along with Cooksport springs and cup dampers?

The tyres have been pushed (full marks for that) whilst under inflated.
It`s all very well setting your pressures immediately after putting in some laps, but if you then faff about checking your wheel nuts, oil, coolant levels & your email, they will be lower when you eventually go back out.
End Of !.
 
  Clio 182
34 front, 30 rear, cold, they won`t roll on the sidewalls to disintegration that way.

I had less pressure than that on my last set and wore the middle out first because they were overinflated, I need to try and find the happy middle ground.

Have you kerbed the wheels badly? That could have thrown the alignment out. I doubt it myself.

Probably needs more camber..........or you need to turn down your enthusiasm :tongueclosed::up:

No I haven't kerbed the wheels or hit any unusually big potholes harder than expected.

I have nothing without enthusiasm! Haha I'll aim for camber and a bit more tyre pressure first...

Another thing to consider are the suspension bushes. Are they standard, in good condition? Have you replaced them with poly bushes or similar?

The ultimate for track use would be rose jointed suspension. But considering its still a road car, that would be impractical, as rose joints would rattle out your fillings, before you got above 20 mph :tonguewink:

I believe they're all standard and nothing obvious in terms of poor condition. I might look at options if I replace dampers and springs.

The tyres have been pushed (full marks for that) whilst under inflated.
It`s all very well setting your pressures immediately after putting in some laps, but if you then faff about checking your wheel nuts, oil, coolant levels & your email, they will be lower when you eventually go back out.
End Of !.

Sadly I think you're right, thanks for full marks though! I checked the pressure this morning and the front is down to about 20psi, but it's much colder than it was on Friday when they were at 30 hot.

I was wearing out the middle of the tread on my last set at 36 hot so I think I'll aim for 33 hot and see what happens there. I guess I need to try and warm them up a bit more gently... What's the best way to do this other than just taking it easy for the first few laps, I was lapping in the 54's on Friday, would a couple of laps at 60 seconds be enough to get them a bit firmer?

I've not read about a clio running them this high or having issues warming them up before? It'd be interesting to know what pressures others are running hot and cold to see the difference they get on track?

I set my r888 cold pressures to 22-24psi front/24-26psi rear depending on conditions and have never had an issue like the OP's.

That's interesting to know, what hot pressure is that? What suspension set up are you using?

These tyres are definitely an interesting and very grippy learning curve...
 

JamesBryan

ClioSport Club Member
Anyway, it's tyre temperature that's the key thing. Pressure is used as a "tool" to get to the temperature.

90-100c degrees is what you want across the whole tyre on an R888.

But that's going a bit OTT for trackdays.
 
  Clio 182
OE shocks and AMAX 40mm springs running -2.3 camber using camber bolts.

That's good to hear, I could only get -1.5 using camber bolts and standard suspension, hopefully a set of springs will let me get a bit more!

You definitely do not want 34PSI cold. Mental suggestion. Aim for around 30PSI when HOT. As in just come off track and set them straight away.

This is what I did but they seem to be rolling over too much, what do they drop down to cold and how do you warm them up slowly? I'm thinking I need to aim for a bit higher to prevent them rolling over before I get heat into them.
 
You definitely do not want 34PSI cold. Mental suggestion. Aim for around 30PSI when HOT. As in just come off track and set them straight away.
This, I just normally have a mate in the pits ready to check pressures straight after a hot lap, then go straight out again to test, rinse and repeat until they are 30psi all-round hot pressures, takes a few laps but once set they are consistent throughout the day, unless the weather changes.
 
I set mine around 23psi cold. Do the sighting laps. Then a steady first session. That seems to get them to about 30 when hot on my setup. I then just monitor them throughout the rest of the day and keep them at 30. Often don't even need to touch them unless the weather changes a lot.

If you're going to focus on track days though, rather than road driving, you'd feel a huge benefit getting some decent coilovers. They're not cheap but they will transform the car.
 
Never EVER set track tyre temps cold , they will change depending on track temp for starters. look at body roll , whilst you can use springs to counter this thats not the way you should be doing it .
Do you run a rear anti roll bar ? and a front anti roll bar thats stiffer/adjustable would be something to consider .
 
I set mine around 23psi cold. Do the sighting laps. Then a steady first session. That seems to get them to about 30 when hot on my setup. I then just monitor them throughout the rest of the day and keep them at 30. Often don't even need to touch them unless the weather changes a lot.

If you're going to focus on track days though, rather than road driving, you'd feel a huge benefit getting some decent coilovers. They're not cheap but they will transform the car.
Next on my list along with diff and cams, but coilovers first as my current set-up is really holding me and the car back on track. Will go with BC Dr's/Spax RSX or a used set of AST's.
 
  Clio 182
Never EVER set track tyre temps cold , they will change depending on track temp for starters. look at body roll , whilst you can use springs to counter this thats not the way you should be doing it .
Do you run a rear anti roll bar ? and a front anti roll bar thats stiffer/adjustable would be something to consider .

Not running a rear anti roll bar, do you think that would help more than stiffer springs?

I'd like a decent set of coilovers but can't justify spending £1000 on them. That's £1000 I plan to put towards replacing it with a Megane 250 cup in the next couple of years...
 

Waitey

ClioSport Club Member
  Alpina D3, AC Cobra
Whiteline ARB and new dampers..... I bet the OSR is a pattern part.....

annnnnnnnnnnnnnnd

A diff
Or an Ignis....
 
Not running a rear anti roll bar, do you think that would help more than stiffer springs?

I'd like a decent set of coilovers but can't justify spending £1000 on them. That's £1000 I plan to put towards replacing it with a Megane 250 cup in the next couple of years...
My first thoughts would be

New cup shocks
Standard springs
Rear arb
Adjust front camber to -2.5
A touch of toe out maybe 10 mins total

30psi hot on the tyres

And then see where you are

Springs control how fast each individual wheel moves up and down and front,rear weight transfer

Dampers control the car from bouncing on the springs

Anti roll bars control the body from rolling left to right

That's as simple as i can explain it for now without getting too deep into how and why dampers and springs do what they do

But that's my starter advice to you

And that even if you had a set of eibach or cooksport springs is going to set you back less than 500 quid

Sent from my LG-H815 using Tapatalk
 


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