Understeer!

[miketheman2k]

I have fitted Gaz coilovers to my otherwise (almost) standard 182. When they were first on, the ride was hard, but the handling balance was still the same, and the front tyres still dug in hard. Life was good.

In the last couple of weeks something has changed. As soon as I turn-in now, the steering feels lighter than before, and you can feel the balance of the car change from its normal straightahead stance (where its fine). When pushing hard into a corner, the car doesn't bite properly any more (probably due to change of balance once the steering changes) and pushes wide - almost frightingly so.

The other day I was coming off a roundabout onto a slip road, going about 50ish, and I felt the front start to understeer, so I came off the throttle slightly, and the back end wanted to say hello - fortunately the ESP kicked in and straightened the car out, as I couldn't turn into it because of the understeer!

I know the roads are a bit greasy at the moment, but something has definitely changed the cars attitude in bends, and I need to fix it!

By the way, my Gaz Coilovers are set to '6 clicks' from hardest all-round and my tyre pressures are 33psi (front) and 30psi (rear).

Thanks chaps.

 

[Djw John]

Maybe as the suspension has bedded in the steering geometry has changed more, defo worth get 4 wheel alignment done by a specilist.

 

[stan*]

or maybe the roads are greasy due to change in weather conditions

 

[stan*]

your t.p's ok? plenty of tread on the tyres i take it?

 

[miketheman2k]

your t.p's ok? plenty of tread on the tyres i take it?

Yes, all fine on the tyre front.

I don't doubt it needs a 4-wheel alignment, but I'm gobsmacked at how much the handling has changed. Would coilovers considerably affect the tracking? Are there any other variables on the clio, like caster? I know camber isn't as standard (even with these coilovers).

 

[George k]

Two ideas: if you have lowered it and now it has settled you may be rolling onto the bump stops which will create a sudden increase in roll stiffness and snap oversteer. The other thing is that if the spring platforms are of the threaded type you may find that the corner weights are out; a quick check is to make sure that the springs are the same length as installed on each side - checking the amount of thread showing will do this.

BTW changing the ride height will almost certainly change the toe setting at the front.

 

[miketheman2k]

The other thing is that if the spring platforms are of the threaded type you may find that the corner weights are out; a quick check is to make sure that the springs are the same length as installed on each side - checking the amount of thread showing will do this.

Cheers George. So the car shouldn't necessarily have the same height from the ground to the top of the arch, but the equal length of thread showing on the strut?

 

[EFIOZ]

It also sounds like a horrible lack of low speed rebound (or rebound control in general).

Get the shcok checked out. Is it possible that they might have been able to bottom out the way they were installed? This might have damaged the valve.

 

[George k]

Good point about damaged valving. The idea about the length of thread showing was a crude way of corner weighting - I would prefer it to wheel arch measurements which are never very precise side to side and can hide a diagonal weight bias. The correct way to corner weight is to disconnect the anti roll bar, then make sure the car is level (side to side) and then check the corner weights (ideally with the driver in, but not as important as in reality as theory would suggest). The diagonal issue is that the weight can be carried by the nsfront and os rear, so the roll stiffnesses are completely different when turning left and right - so in fact the other clue is if the handling is not the same left and right. Before getting too involved I would really make sure that you are not rolling onto the bump stops. Good luck.

 

[miketheman2k]

Good point about damaged valving. The idea about the length of thread showing was a crude way of corner weighting - I would prefer it to wheel arch measurements which are never very precise side to side and can hide a diagonal weight bias. The correct way to corner weight is to disconnect the anti roll bar, then make sure the car is level (side to side) and then check the corner weights (ideally with the driver in, but not as important as in reality as theory would suggest). The diagonal issue is that the weight can be carried by the nsfront and os rear, so the roll stiffnesses are completely different when turning left and right - so in fact the other clue is if the handling is not the same left and right. Before getting too involved I would really make sure that you are not rolling onto the bump stops. Good luck.

How would I go about checking I'm not rolling onto the bump stops?

 

[EVOgone]

May need fully setting-up after you have bedded it in.

Cornerweights and geom set-up, go somewhere that can do it properly.

 

[miketheman2k]

Yes, I'm going to take it to Northampton Motorsport for the works soon Not cheap though is it, but it proves that the monkeys at Just Tyres probably don't give geometry the attention it deserves

 

[benji&eka]

northampton motorsport, just tyres? you near me buddy??

 

[miketheman2k]

northampton motorsport, just tyres? you near me buddy??

I live in MK, so its just up the road. Have you heard good things about them (NM, not just tyres )

 

[benji&eka]

yeah NM are good, just tyres are crap

 

[stu8v]

Cheapo suspension????

 

[George k]

The normal ways to find out if the car is rolling onto the bump stops are
- put grease on the bump stops and see if it is squashed
- put a tywrap round the damper shaft and see how far it moves - probably a bit difficult with dust covers.

 

[miketheman2k]

I shall grease them up and see how it goes!

And yes, it may be cheapo suspension, but it was working fine when they first went on.

 

[miketheman2k]

The normal ways to find out if the car is rolling onto the bump stops are
- put grease on the bump stops and see if it is squashed
- put a tywrap round the damper shaft and see how far it moves - probably a bit difficult with dust covers.

I put some grease on, and it got completely flattened, so it must be hitting them - how often I don't know. I've now raised it 20mm at the front, and re-greased it, so I'll check it again soon.

Still doesn't feel right at the new height yet.

 

[makavelli]

my gaz seem to be ok, ive had them on for a few months now and the handling seems fine when i throw it into the twisties- in fact the car seems to love the corners more than ever now. incidently i had the four wheel allignment done last week and the geezer said it wasnt far out but was definatley worth doing- he did it all for 58 quid as well using that hunter laser gear which is a bargain imo

 

[miketheman2k]

my gaz seem to be ok, ive had them on for a few months now and the handling seems fine when i throw it into the twisties- in fact the car seems to love the corners more than ever now. incidently i had the four wheel allignment done last week and the geezer said it wasnt far out but was definatley worth doing- he did it all for 58 quid as well using that hunter laser gear which is a bargain imo

Thanks makavelli. Where did you get your tracking done?

 

[makavelli]

paul sheards on the a34 in congleton, hes a mate of me bro in law and runs his own race team so he knowa his stuff and i put my faith in his work as being better than most places round here