Unstable front end... any ideas?

[Mister_G]

Hi all,

Car's been a little unsteady at the front for a while now, but nothing major really...

However, took the car to Fred the other day at BTM to have the track rods changed as one was seized, as usual he gave the car the once over and didn't really find anything wrong other than the front anti roll bar bushes being worn.

Since having the track rods, and steering arms changed the steering is a lot lighter, obviously, but it's made this problem 100x worse! If one of the front wheels goes over a slight blemish in the surface of the road you can feel the wheels wanting to pull in that direction. Front end feels quite harsh... (shocks?)

I guess my question is would the anti roll bar bushes be causing this? Rear shocks and springs were changed 6 months ago, and I have Eagle F1's all round on Cup turinis with plenty of tread left. Tyre pressures are also fine.

I intend to take it back over to Fred at some point as he said the steering felt 'loose' and that if I didn't get on with it to pop it back over. Just wondered if anyone else had experienced a similar problem?

Spent over £1200 since January on this thing and I'm getting a tad fed up now lol! Whoever buys it next is gonna have a virtually brand new car at this rate lol!

 

[Mister_G]

Oh also said the front bump stops were split, but that this wouldn't cause a problem.

 

[welshname]

mine has been the same. granted it isnt a sport. but im prety sure mine is a bearing. need to get the car jacked up and wiggle the wheel first.

 

[Mister_G]

Hmmm good place to start. Fred checked all of mine though, quite extensively. But as I say if you haven't checked anything yet that's where to begin!

 

[welshname]

yeah. i did hear the arb bushes are a likely suspect though. and unfortunatley mate, you have a french car. this is what happened. my clutch went less than a month ago. now this.

 

[Mister_G]

Mate I've spend a stupid amount of money on this, so far I've changed;

• Rear axle bushes
• New key fob (£154!!!)
• New rear shocks and springs
• Dephaser Puller and full cam belt and aux belt kit
• Track Rod ends and Steering Arms
• New Washer Bottle
• New front windshield
• bonnet catch
• both xenon balasts

I'm sure there's more... lmao

Now I'm gonna have to change ARB Bushes which I reckon will be about £180 because it's a b*****d to do apparently. And I'm thinking my front suspension is going to need changing too (which I think is the cause of these problems but I wanted to get feedback from others before jumping the gun)!! lol

 

[jjones82]

Mate I've spend a stupid amount of money on this, so far I've changed;

• Rear axle bushes
• New key fob (£154!!!)
• New rear shocks and springs
• Dephaser Puller and full cam belt and aux belt kit
• Track Rod ends and Steering Arms
• New Washer Bottle
• New front windshield
• bonnet catch
• both xenon balasts

I'm sure there's more... lmao

Now I'm gonna have to change ARB Bushes which I reckon will be about £180 because it's a b*****d to do apparently. And I'm thinking my front suspension is going to need changing too (which I think is the cause of these problems but I wanted to get feedback from others before jumping the gun)!! lol

I got my front end done for £80 inner / outer Arb and both wishbone bushes i bought the bushes (powerflex) then a mechanic charged me £80 to fit including tac welding the sleeves in place. So no way should it be 180!

 

[Mister_G]

I was thinking £180 to include parts (powerflex). It's just an estimate I haven't actually had a quote yet. I've just spoken to Fred @ BTM and I'm gonna try and get over to him next weekend for him to have another look. Seeing as this is the only thing he saw wrong I can't imagine it being anything else?!

It's £109 inc delivery just for the bushes for inner and outer ARB and front wishbone from KamRacing.

 

[jjones82]

Yeah for powerflex thats prob about right! i managed to get mine cheap in the for sale section though!

 

[Mister_G]

Nice, just found them all on eBay and it'd work out at £99 so saved a tenner! Once I've spoken to Fred on Monday, I'll make sure that they're the right ones and order them and get them fitted next Saturday. I'll then post and let everyone know if it's sorted it. (Unless Fred says not to and wants to properly check my shocks and springs at the front end before I buy stuff that I don't need!)

 

[robbygraham]

I seem to have the same thing going on with my 182, any little imperfection or camber in the road and the car is pulled all over the place, I have all the suspension joints and steering arms checked for any play (this was at kwikfit) then thought i'll get the tracking on the car done, this seems to have helped a little, but still have the problems, not sure what to do next, I find the problems stop me driving at any pace as I don't know how the car will handle, especially as i had to do an emergency stop the other day from about 50 and the car shot about 3ft left. Just not sure what to do, will keep you informed if i find the solution.

 

[TheEvilGiraffe]

Have you actually had the tracking/ alignment checked ?

 

[robbygraham]

yes had it laser aligned

 

[Mister_G]

I had laser alignment done today as well as Fred did it by eye, I have to say it wasn't very far out!! lol

The main reason Fred changed my track rod ends and steering arms was because the tracking was out and it was all seized up (the car was pulling to the left 80% of the time). Whilst driving home I noticed it's still pulling to the left!! Sometimes more than others . Constantly have to make adjustments to go in a straight line, if I hold the wheel dead straight I end up in the kerb.

So, am I right in thinking it's the ARB and wishbone bushes?? Or could it be shocks/springs?? I don't get it, I find it very strange that it doesn't always pull to the left. (it's not the camber in the road)

 

[sophiesdad]

i know you said you had it laser aligned but still sounds like tracking. what did they set it to ?
could be wishbone or caliper binding maybe ?

 

[robbygraham]

Erm....It was done at Kwikfit so I have no idea what they set it to, will jack it up take the wheels off and have another look this weekend.

 

[daddycool]

same problem here. drives true some of the time, hit a small bump and pulls to the right, hit another small bump and drives straight. its not a violent pull. rear shocks, track rods, track rod ends, ball joints were all done prior to the problem. its not related to steering components as it did the same with both a manual rack and the power steering rack. the top mounts looked in good condition when they were out a couple of months ago. the inner arb bushes are visibly worn and i'm thinking if i have to change these i may as well do the outers too and wishbones bushes. this means all the front end bushes would have been renewed. tracking has been set up on a hunter system and all cambers and castors are within limits so nothing is bent. no solution yet.

 

[Mister_G]

same problem here. drives true some of the time, hit a small bump and pulls to the right, hit another small bump and drives straight. its not a violent pull. rear shocks, track rods, track rod ends, ball joints were all done prior to the problem. its not related to steering components as it did the same with both a manual rack and the power steering rack. the top mounts looked in good condition when they were out a couple of months ago. the inner arb bushes are visibly worn and i'm thinking if i have to change these i may as well do the outers too and wishbones bushes. this means all the front end bushes would have been renewed. tracking has been set up on a hunter system and all cambers and castors are within limits so nothing is bent. no solution yet.

I'm gonna get my ARB and wishbone bushes changed I think. My ARB bushes look Knackered so its the next step I guess.

Get powerflex rather than standard Renault.

 

[daddycool]

yeah if i look at my inner arb bushes i can see light between the bush and the bar. not good! i would have had standard renault replacements, but they shafted me about so have the opportunity to go with powerflex.

the inners are an arse to change, i think subframe drop.

 

[Mister_G]

I'm just gonna get Fred to do it. Nice and easy then. Haha.

 

[Gt rob]

top mounts fellas, mine was unstable, it had loads more bump steer and squirrelled under heavy braking. gave it a cursory check and all seemed fine, then last week went to lower the car a touch and found the top mounts have play in them. now ordered solid ones from k tec tonight

 

[Fred@BTM]

how far out was i on the tracking out of interest?? (just want to see how good my laser eyesight is )

 

[Mister_G]

how far out was i on the tracking out of interest?? (just want to see how good my laser eyesight is )

I don't have any numbers mate but you weren't far off. Haha!

Are the ARB bushes 23 & 25 mm ?

 

[Mister_G]

Just to let you all know the cars goin in to Fred next Saturday to have the powerflex ARB bushes fitted and also powerflex wishbone bushes (may as well do these as well)

Gonna check front end suspension too.

 

[Wests Renault]

I'd try the bottom suspension ball joints. I had this on my old 172, the car used to vear at motorway speeds. When we initially checked the ball joints they appeared OK but a large crowbar showed up about an inch of play

 

[Gt rob]

heres one for fred, what should my toe in/ toe out settings be in mm? ive set it at minus 1mm at the mo

 

[Fred@BTM]

theres no answer to that, entirley upto you

 

[Gt rob]

what is it from the factory? autodata said minus one thats why i put it there

 

[g.c.]

Have exactly the same issue with my newly acquired 182. At slower speeds around town it constantly tugs left or right- not violently, but enough so I have to work against it. At moderate motorway speeds it's not particularly noticeable, but on bendy sections at fast motorway speeds I feel a distinct lack of confidence.

I had it in with Ren-tech yesterday to do my Aux belt, so I mentioned the steering and asked them to have a look, however they said they couldn't find anything out of the ordinary. In fairness to them it wasn't the main reason I'd taken it in so they didn't spend a whole lot of time investigating, but I used to own a 172 and it never used to feel like that.

They mentioned the suspension top mounts were looking worn, but only in relation to another issue- creaking on full lock; not to do with the steering problem.

Would be interested to know if changing the ARB & wishbone bushes has any effect.

 

[Mister_G]

Cars been sold so not changing bushes. I'm afraid I won't be able to tell you if its made a difference.

Although it seems to have settled down loads.

 

[daddycool]

my issue looks like the steering rack bushes, jms had a look and you could see a shiny patch on the rack where it was moving side to side under the bush. new rack bushes/clamps, new arb inner and outer bushes ready to go on tomorrow, will let you know if all is solved. i got standard arb bushes in the end.

 

[JadedJohn]

Had the same problem myself started about 3 weeks ago. It's such a strange feeling, you feel it through the steering wheel and you think either the car is trying to steer itself or smash you or you have become too scared to take a bend. I realised something was really wrong with me or the car when Ford Ka's and the like were laughing at me everywhere. After a visit to the shrink(true) I realised the car was messing me around. (espeially after a 50 mile motoway trip at 47-65 mph depending on surface) I felt worse and was sweating more than after a fight with my ex. Good job had just seen my psychiatrist !! Will update story in a min

 

[welshname]

Cars been sold so not changing bushes. I'm afraid I won't be able to tell you if its made a difference.

Although it seems to have settled down loads.

how come you sold up?

 

[JadedJohn]

The car, after feeling this initial lack of any sensitivity, for the road or my wellbeing was promptly taken straight to the garage on return from my 50 mile motorway toil to see a shrink in Northamptom (the shrink had told me 'everything was in my head', I had disagreed so the trip to the garage was not just about the car's health but also mine. I did not want to end up on Shuttle Island. Maybe it is Shutter Island but the 'shuttleing' of the car was still playing tricks on my mind).

The guy their at GG is great and can drive any car .

Will continue....

 

[JadedJohn]

Anyway, this guy takes me out in my car at speed and I thought I would die because of how I thought it would place itself off the road. He did not feel a great deal wrong apart from the back end going its own way a bit over a hugh bump on a really tight left turn at lights. He said it could be the back end but it always felt the front to me ( maybe because I'm holding the wheel). I told him to check everything front and back. He did.

After sh**ing myself (nearly) in my own car(maybe) , I can say that with this problem (okay):

1) It feels really wrong to the person that KNOWS AND IS USED TO THE CAR
2) There is something wrong with the car but it probably won't drive you off the road ( As from the above 'good other driver/self sh**ing) episode
3) Mechanics can think you are a bit crazy on this one and cant find much really wrong and probably guess ??
4) can be expensive if guessed at ( but could be other factors apart from mine)

GG Garage looked really hard (I know the main mechanic and implored him I was not crazy) and told me both rear shocks were gone and replaced them (renault parts only!) on Friday.

 

[JadedJohn]

Anyway, this guy takes me out in my car at speed and I thought I would die because of how I thought it would place itself off the road. He did not feel a great deal wrong apart from the back end going its own way a bit over a hugh bump on a really tight left turn at lights. He said it could be the back end but it always felt the front to me ( maybe because I'm holding the wheel). I told him to check everything front and back. He did.

After sh**ing myself (nearly) in my own car(maybe) , I can say that with this problem (okay):

1) It feels really wrong to the person that KNOWS AND IS USED TO THE CAR
2) There is something wrong with the car but it probably won't drive you off the road ( As from the above 'good other driver/self sh**ing) episode
3) Mechanics can think you are a bit crazy on this one and cant find much really wrong and probably guess ??
4) can be expensive if guessed at ( but could be other factors apart from mine)

GG Garage looked really hard (I know the main mechanic and implored him I was not crazy) and told me both rear shocks were gone and replaced them (renault parts only!) on Friday.

 

[JadedJohn]

Drove 450 miles this weekend.
50% better but still not right over 85mph on motorway. worse with passengers.
Will get front shocks done soon and I think is the root of the problem.
All 4 at once is crazy !!!

 

[Mister_G]

how come you sold up?

Just getting ridiculously expensive to run mate. Plus, everytime I think its finally fixed something else breaks... got my self a nice economical oil burner. Lol

 

[welshname]

Just getting ridiculously expensive to run mate. Plus, everytime I think its finally fixed something else breaks... got my self a nice economical oil burner. Lol

fair does. what have you gone for? ive only got a 1.2 and its breaking left right and centre. going to go jap with an ek4 civic i think.

 

[Mister_G]

Gone 207 diesel. £20 a year tax and between 50 and 70mpg. Slow as s**t but I don't drive anywhere I can use the 172 properly anyway so I'm not bothered. I pick it up on Thursday.