uprated head studs for F4R-730

[en035]

Can anybody tell me what is the nominal size (all the details needed, thread size and etc.) of the original head stud on F4R-730 (Clio 172-182)?

Just checked it on ARP website, they do not specially make it for Clio but there are many universal one's.

Thanks

 

[en035]

update

 

[Mark One]

I dont under stand why you'd want those? OEM head studs are carefully engineered to pull the engine together as it warms up

 

[en035]

I've just bought uprated valve springs off k-tec and am thinking about getting ARP rod bolts. The idea is to increase the rev limit (within reasonable limits of course) Car is equipped with Colombo Bariani cams so increasing the rev limit increases the top end power. That's why that I want to strengthen all the weak points in the engine.

 

[ditz]

ah rod bolts..

they are worth doing, you said head studs.

no known problems with oe headbolts.. if it aint broke dont fix it

rod bolts are worth doing if the sumps coming off or if youre going over the 8k barrier revs wise imo

 

[dunlop]

pistons go before they rod bolts i think.

 

[sideways danny]

Std headbolts are ok, just use the higher end of the torque tollerence range

 

[Fred@BTM]

pistons go before they rod bolts i think.

other way round i've found, std rod bolts don't like 8krpm!!

 

[en035]

other way round i've found, std rod bolts don't like 8krpm!!

That's what I know, too.

So uprated valve springs + rod bolts is the way to go I think.

Fred, Did you use ARP bolts on your race engine?

 

[Fred@BTM]

yes with std rods, but we were running standard vlaves and valve springs

 

[franx]

Alper you ca'nt get enough can you ?

Are these cams all about power way up in the rpm's ?
Mine are being done right now (actually already in there) , not changing any other internals. Should I ? :S

I knew about the 8000 rpm limit for reliabilty so i'm asking Henk not to raise rev limit too high ; sticking to 8000.. Am i going to be dissapointed ?

 

[Fred@BTM]

i wouldn't go above 7500-7700 if you're using stock rod bolts

 

[RSTuning]

To need the extra rpm's would be some serious cams which i highly dount would run that well on a stock ecu. What profile are the cams you use?

 

[franx]

^^ these ones

http://www.colombo-bariani.com/popup_dettaglio.php?lang=eng&id_prodotto=103

 

[franx]

i wouldn't go above 7500-7700 if you're using stock rod bolts

Mistake with the 8000, OEM must be less ; 7200 ?

 

[Fred@BTM]

we ran a car on a standard engine with an 8000rpm rev limit, it last for a long time (60,000 miles IIRC) but then it blew up BIG TIME, rod bolts snapped on no 2 & 3 IIRC

 

[en035]

i wouldn't go above 7500-7700 if you're using stock rod bolts

That's what I have been told as well. Henk set the rev limit at around 7600 on my car.

So I am gonna follow Fred's suggestion and change the rod bolts before increasing the rev limit. By the way, the uprated valve springs sold at ktec website are from catcams, I know since I am holding a set at the mom

 

[en035]

Alper you ca'nt get enough can you ?

Are these cams all about power way up in the rpm's ?
Mine are being done right now (actually already in there) , not changing any other internals. Should I ? :S

I knew about the 8000 rpm limit for reliabilty so i'm asking Henk not to raise rev limit too high ; sticking to 8000.. Am i going to be dissapointed ?

Hi Frank,

The idea is not only increasing the rev limit but also reinforcing the engine components which can handle the higher stress at high revs (not above 8000 of course) for prolonged times.

How is your car by the way. Is it on road or are you still working on it?

P.S. 8000 is way too high, I would keep lower with std internals.

 

[Fred@BTM]

also i would suggest going for a 50 or 60 engine oil (something like 5W50 or 10W60) just to be extra safe if you're going for 8000rpm

 

[stan*]

why would you suggest that?

 

[Fred@BTM]

you never seen the oil temps on them after hard track sessions?

 

[stan*]

yes...and going to a 60grade with what will probably standard oil clearances is going to do it more harm than good.
It would be alot better to better the oil cooling system rather than randomly chucking in various grade oils.

Besides, using a better more thermally stable oil would be a better start than changing viscosity.

 

[Fred@BTM]

they work fine on 50 and 60's, Schrick actually recommend putting in a 50 or 60 with their cams (i forget which)

yes a cooler is a good idea (thermostatic one)

 

[stan*]

thats such a generalisation really...but hey

 

[franx]

Alper , yeah i was a bit sleepy when i mentioned the 8 million rpm.. :dead: i meant just a gradual bit above standard limit (7200?) so like yours 7800 or 7500 or so.

The car is in the shop, cambelt/cams are already in there + a new clutch , i expect it to be ready beginning next week (manifold + decat-mod still need doing) and mid december it's off to Henk.

it'll be done on his regular dyno-rollers , will be a nice daytrip for me

 

[Fastchip]

With different cams, the safe rev. limit is determined by the valve train components. Not the rods/rod bolts.

 

[Fred@BTM]

they're a weak point though

 

[Fastchip]

they're a weak point though

They become a weak point when you go beyond the design limit, which seems to be around the region of 7600-7700 rpm for sustained operation. As you already pointed out.
Not bad for a long stroker I would say..

 

[Fred@BTM]

no indeed it lasted well!!! that was on an R-sport ecu which comes from renault with an 8,000rpm limit!!!!!!!!!! haha

 

[Fastchip]

no indeed it lasted well!!! that was on an R-sport ecu which comes from renault with an 8,000rpm limit!!!!!!!!!! haha

Not 8000, 7650 rpm. Nevertheless still impressive !
R3 kit engine is set at 7800 rpm with lightened pistons. Rebuild recommendation every 2000 km.

 

[Fred@BTM]

it was a few years ago!!! oops, what's the story behind the 1,100rpm (approx) idle though??? did you create that map for r-sport?

 

[sean]

think the idle @ 1100ish if for running with the group N camshafts .

 

[en035]

Not 8000, 7650 rpm. Nevertheless still impressive !
R3 kit engine is set at 7800 rpm with lightened pistons. Rebuild recommendation every 2000 km.

Hi Henk,

Good to see you around. By any chance, can we find those pistons?

Alper

 

[Tucker]

i thought the lifters started to die at 8k rpm

 

[en035]

i thought the lifters started to die at 8k rpm

check out these then we talk

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6236132811659289438

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp5VoT6chjw

 

[Tucker]

well then,

enjoy the cams fella!

haha

 

[en035]

well then,

enjoy the cams fella!

haha

neither of those vids is mine, just wanted to show you that it is possible.

182 is GDI's demo car, though not knowing the full details I am almost sure that it is heavily modded.

 

[franx]

i thought the lifters started to die at 8k rpm

i think these WILL die with longer use ?

The GDI video rocks diddly !!!! WOW the acceleration

 

[Fastchip]

it was a few years ago!!! oops, what's the story behind the 1,100rpm (approx) idle though??? did you create that map for r-sport?

Renault Sport (not to be confused with r-sport) developed 2 Groupe_N calibrations. One with standard cams and one for use with their Groupe_N intake cam. Obviously the 'high idle'one should be used icw the intake cam.

 

[Fastchip]

Hi Henk,
Good to see you around. By any chance, can we find those pistons?
Alper

R3 maxi pistons 7711160678. 342 Euro each.
R3 pistons 7711160270. 68 Euro each.
Strengthened rod bolts 7711126624.

Both pistons are for the -830 , buy I guess they can be use in a -730 as well.
Don't know the difference between the 2 , haven't seen them yet.