Web Developers

[rory182]

I'm computer literate but struggling here... lol

I'm implementing a system to use a database which I will load with the relavant data, that data is then used to pre-populate a template.

The result is an a4 guide which is a pdf document which the end user can view on our website. The guides will be stored on the server and if changes are made will automatically be updated. The user can print / view / save the document etc as you'd expect but I must be able to download all guides (250+) so I have a catalogue of them.

I've had a system spec'd to do this (£9000!!!) and it sounds the mutts nuts, it'll do everything I want...

but my question is, is there any software out there 'off the shelf' which might be used to achieve the same / similar at a hell of a lot less than £9k - allow for the set-up times too, I'd have to generate 250+ guides so my costs need to be considered as an overhead, the £9k system uses minimal effort from me.

Any help much appreciated!

I've attached a pdf to show what the output will be like.

Cheers, Rory

 

[rory182]

bump...

 

[disco]

Is the system that you had speced bespoke or is it genral purpose? If you haev developers you could acive the output using java servlets and a database.

http://www.lowagie.com/iText/ create pdfs with JAVA.

The pdfs couldbe created on with every request to ensure they are up to date or you could have a datbase trigger to fforce pdf creation when a change is published.

It sounds like a sizable project though! Just my initial thoughts.

 

[KDF]

It wouldnt be that hard to write a bit of php to generate the PDF files on the fly.. eg. the pdf document is generated when the user clicks to view it, getting the most up to date information from a database and populating a pre-written template with that database info.

 

[rory182]

the java bit sounds interesting, it's a bespoke system designed to make use of our existing content management system, web shop etc.

We don't have any web developers here, nor can we justify having any. So it's gotta be an HTML editor based thing really so Joe Bloggs (i.e. me) can use it.

As for generating the PDFs on the fly, we don't want to do that as this system will be accessed from our website and our international distirbutors website so we dont want to slow things down, we have plenty of server space and so will store the most up-to-date issue of each pdf on the server, ready for download.

I asked the people who specc'ed it if they knew of any off the shelf software which could do this, they said:

"We looked into what was currently available on the market with the idea of using an open source solution that we could license and customise as per the project requirements. This would have reduced our development time and the project costs for all concerned. We found absolutely nothing that came even close.

There were one or two open source solutions for PDF generation but it only made up on piece of the jigsaw and was not using the same operating system as Scottoiler.com and the suite of products use i.e. the CMS, Shop, Newsletter etc. are all using Windows based systems.

We as a company sat down and researched various options but it has now very much became a bespoke solution in many ways which integrates with the existing web site, control panels and database."

seems fair to me, I think I need a cheque for £9k! lol

 

[disco]

To be honest it looks like the comany have given this some serious thought and probably looked at the open sourcer option i posted. The only thing I would say is make sure you have put this out to tender see if you get a better offer?

Without your own developers I seriously doubt this is something you can just knock up especialy if you want non developers to be able to maintain it.

Make sure they tell you about any hidden costs. Any bespoke system is going to be exspensive but it doesn't sound like there is a product that covers your needs. Not without changing your main web site and or your cms.

Again these are just my views from the limited info posted.

All you have to do is aks yourself will the 9k pay itself back or make you a loss leader (giving you somethign the rivals don't) if it will then go for it! speculate to accumulate

 

[Englebert]

To clarify, you want a tool to take details from a database, and automatically create populated PDFs with those database details?

Do you have a proper tender document?

 

[sn00p]

Doesn't sound all that complex to me tbh.

Have you got a complete spec/more detailed info?

 

[rory182]

the complete spec has been written with the company quoting who manage our website so I'm not about to put it out to tender as they already run the site. they charge a development rate of £20 an hour for us and i've secured a grant for 30% of the costs.

just making sure nobody knows of any software alternative, I have no reason to doubt the guys they're very helpful. Just have to ask the question due to the cost involved.

It will pay for itself easily but might take a few years, it allows us to have the guides in foreign languages (based on our distributors translating some standard text) so opens up possibilities in new markets, its a business tool.

 

[rory182]

cheers for the replies folks, its not my area of expertise!

 

[sn00p]

the complete spec has been written with the company quoting who manage our website so I'm not about to put it out to tender as they already run the site. they charge a development rate of £20 an hour for us and i've secured a grant for 30% of the costs.

Well without knowing the spec, it's hard to know what you want exactly. :S

From what you've said it sounds like they're lubing up and preparing for entry.

 

[bigmouk]

Did something like this about a month back, lets just say 9k sounds A LOT.

Based on what you have posted i would imagine a couple of days work would achieve what your after. Absolutley no idea were they have got 9k from mate.

 

[rory182]

the complete spec has been written with the company quoting who manage our website so I'm not about to put it out to tender as they already run the site. they charge a development rate of £20 an hour for us and i've secured a grant for 30% of the costs.

Well without knowing the spec, it's hard to know what you want exactly. :S

From what you've said it sounds like they're lubing up and preparing for entry.

well call it business ethics if u like but i'm not gonna post a spec that they helped write.

thanks for your input folks. I was asking if existing software could be used, it'd seem not.

Fair enough if programmers or web developers could do it and manage it but as said we havent got them.

 

[sn00p]

I was asking if existing software could be used, it'd seem not.

The problem is that you're unable to provide a spec so we can't tell you if there is anything that can be used/hacked to produce what you're looking for, your description above is sketchy at best!

I suspect that because they've written the spec for you, they know full well what they can get away with.....

 

[disco]

It really depends what you are getting for your 9k.

Extream cases :-


Case 1 :-

The system takes date already in your back office database. Converts it to a PDF that never changes layout. (Not worth 9k)

Case 2 :-

The system requires database extensions.
Allows version control and publishing controls of the PDFs
The system allows a user with no programing knowladge to make changes to the pdf layout and changes to the inormation contained within each pdf.
(ok this spec is still broad but could well be worth 9k)

It is all realtive to the spec that has been produced. The fact of the matter is that you aren't going to get an off the shelf or open source solution that fits into the current set up without some developer time, analyst and systems admin time.

It might be possible to do this cheeper but only with a full tendering process. As long as you are happy that the spec you are holding is worth 9k then I say go for it.

 

[disco]

One last thing make sure the translation isn't just run through a translation program. This will put foreign customers off not gain their business. Translation programs are great for single words or short phrases but come up with a load of nonsense for whole pages/paragraphs. The only way to get a good translation is for someone who knows both languages to sit down and translate it by hand.

 

[16v_jon]

go on kasamba.com they will build you a program for peanuts anything you want

 

[bigmouk]

"There were one or two open source solutions for PDF generation but it only made up on piece of the jigsaw and was not using the same operating system as Scottoiler.com and the suite of products use i.e. the CMS, Shop, Newsletter etc. are all using Windows based systems."

Ok, Scottoiler.com are mainly .asp pages which means it 'probably' runs on IIS which will be 'probably' running on a Windows Server (NT,2000,2003).

I have used the following component several times with both .asp (ASP 3.0) and .aspx (ASP.Net) pages on windows servers in the last 5/6 years.... and it costs $599 (approx £300) for the licence. You dont need to buy adobe acrobat either and you dont need adobe acrobat on the server.

http://www.aspose.com/wiki/default.aspx/Aspose.Pdf/ProductOverview.html

2-3 Days programming/testing is all that it would take (the last job i did took 2 days) because the component above is easy to work with and can do pretty much anything you need.

I cant believe the company you are using havent suggested using such a component. I would go back to them with the link to this component and see what they say. They are taking the p*ss quoting you £9,000 for this work. Even half this would be on the expensive side, I would imagine you should be looking at around the £3,000 mark.

BTW - Im not looking for business, just friendly advice thats all.

Cheers

 

[disco]

I still think it depends what he is getting for his 9k!

The description sounds easy and lots of us could provide a soulutin that takes data and turns it into a pdf ina few days. But we don't really know the full picture as the spec is unavailable so we don't really know if the 9k is fair or not!

 

[bigmouk]

^fair point.

Not uncommon for companies to take the p*ss once they have you. A friend of mine sent me some invoices from their IT support company because he was a bit concerned about prices he was being charged. One of them was £495 for an 80 Gb IDE drive as a 'Server Upgrade'.

 

[disco]

I know companies can take the piss an old work of mine paid a 6 figure sum for a website and cms that didn't fit their requirements. Then thousands a year for hosting. It used to take the marketing department several hours to put a news story up on the site.

I started working there did a website and a bespoke cms in a few months that replaced the externaly hosted site. They loved it. I was being paid 12.5k a year as it was my first job! So the replacement cost the a couple of thousand if u take the cost of my time!

I think it is all about the sepc and being happy that what you are paing for is what you require and justifies the cost.

But i do agree there are some comapnies that will charge the earth for minimal work. Not just in IT think abotu waht we pay for some car repairs!

 

[rory182]

Yeah the system spec'd as as Disco referred to as:

"Case 2 :-

The system requires database extensions.
Allows version control and publishing controls of the PDFs
The system allows a user with no programing knowladge to make changes to the pdf layout and changes to the inormation contained within each pdf.
(ok this spec is still broad but could well be worth 9k)"

The translations will be done by people i.e. our english speaking technically capable foreign distributors, but we will have control over the content because we tell them what to translate.

I'm happy with what's been spec'd and it will be a useful business tool requiring minimal effort thus will pay for itself. It's not all about direct costs.

Cheers again.