Well Peed off! Alignment set up

[Mike_RS]

Ive recently had some AST adjustable top mounts and Eibach springs fitted at Birchdown, since then I’ve been advised to get them set up properly because I had a pretty horrendous wheel wobble. I was gutted birchdown couldn’t set them up because its the only place I would let touch my car after a bad experience getting some braided hoses fitted at a Honda specialist and I really didn’t know where else to take it.

My mate recommend a Nissan Skyline specialist where he had his CRX set up and his car has been faultless. So I dropped the car off last night after work and agreed to collect it the next day.

Well ive just got my car back and it doesn’t look like its been done right at all. I had a read up on the AST's on here and most people have them facing towards the engine for max camber. The way mine have been done is the drivers side top mount is facing the front of the car and the other is facing away from the engine which I believe is max castor? Then to add to insult I found out later they all have little marks on them where the anodised finish had been gouged, I don’t think they have took the load off them to twist them.. The marks are only small but I didn’t buy £200 top mounts to have the finish mess up..

I then asked the guy for the print out and he said "we don’t use a laser system we use string?? They are running 3/4 of a degree camber that’s the max we would get out of the top mounts" I thought wtf is going on! Then he charges me 2 hours labour £130!, I though it would be about £40 - £70 to have them set up? I think ive been had.. In fairness I should have agreed a price before the work was carried out, but I though something as simple as wheel alignment wouldn’t cost me that much..

Does anybody know where I can get the alignment done properly! I guess if I went back it would just be me arguing there set up wrong against his word.. FFS!

Cant birchdown invest in some decent alignment tools! :dapprove:

 

[AdamR]

I'm not very experienced with this... but surely the top mounts have nothing to do with how much camber you can run? Sounds a bit fishy and the garage haven't done a good job at all

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

On McPherson strut suspension you adjust the camber and caster with the top mounts. Did you buy them to look pretty or something? We usually used a hammer and point to move the ones on the M3s lol. They were scuffed to f**k but if you loosen them too much to move them you'll never get them tight without them moving again.

It may looks strange to you, but then how does it drive? Sounds a bit old fashioned doing it with string though...

 

[Cup_Phil]

You do what???

If someone had whacked the hell out of my top mounts I wouldn't pay the bill at all

Also if the top mounts aren't both in the same mirror positions then you're running mis-matched camber & castor
As for string - WTF. You can use string for toe in/out if you're properly old school - but for camber/castor - get to f*ck!

Absolute shite mate - get to someone with a hunter system - ask for a print out before they adjust anything then go back to this place and ask for your money back

 

[AdamR]

On McPherson strut suspension you adjust the camber and caster with the top mounts.

I understand how you would adjust the caster with the top mounts, but wouldn't the camber adjustment be very limited without using camber bolts? That's how I set my camber anyway, camber bolts.

But yeah - string :headno: 0.75 deg camber is kinda pointless too as standard is 0.5?

 

[Mike_RS]

I bought them to add some camber and they come in an anodised finish to look good under the bonnet too, everything on the car is immaculate and tatty top mounts is not what i wanted.. what’s annoying is ive been told if you take the load off them and loosen the 3 bolts its just a matter of twisting them by hand. So the damage could have been avoided.

I haven’t had much of a chance to try the handling out but it just doesn’t look like it been set up right at all!

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

I see your point mate, I would never scuff a customer's top mounts, you should probably speak to them and make it clear you're not happy with the work they've done, or the cosmetic damage they've caused and look for ways to come to an agreement, they're probably not going to be in a hurry to provide you with new ones, but you may get something if you word it right.

I understand how you would adjust the caster with the top mounts, but wouldn't the camber adjustment be very limited without using camber bolts? That's how I set my camber anyway, camber bolts.

But yeah - string :headno:

Camber is in and out, caster is forward and backwards. Bolt the top mounts closer together to get more camber... But frankly we're talking about road cars here, how much camber do you want???

 

[AdamR]

I understand that - I was saying the adjustment must be very limited, sounds like it's gone from 0.5 standard to 0.75 which doesn't sound worth it to me, could have fitted some camber bolts instead.

I guess Mike was hoping for something different, which is why he's peed off. Given the lack of explanation from the garage, combined with a pretty big bill and scratched parts, I would sya he is entitled to feeling a bit hard done by!

 

[Mike_RS]

From what ive read about AST's the camber adjustment is minimal you can get 2 degree of camber from the top mounts. Which is what I requested when I put the car in as it is used mainly as a road car with occasional track days and camber bolts would just increase the tyre wear drastically..

So how much should I expect to pay if i take my car to a place with a hunter alignment system?

 

[Ex-User (19928)]

I understand that - I was saying the adjustment must be very limited, sounds like it's gone from 0.5 standard to 0.75 which doesn't sound worth it to me, could have fitted some camber bolts instead.

I guess Mike was hoping for something different, which is why he's peed off. Given the lack of explanation from the garage, combined with a pretty big bill and scratched parts, I would sya he is entitled to feeling a bit hard done by!

No way, those few inches of movement equal a good few degrees.

 

[Dan519]

my take on it...AST top mounts should be used to give the max castor you can get, then adjust camber with bolts

 

[.Tyler]

Did they not recommend you go to tweeks? That's where they told me to go when they fitted by new oem top mounts and various other bits. They have a proper laser alignment system.

 

[imprezaworks]

Out of sheer interest what Honda specialist?

 

[Mike_RS]

Did they not recommend you go to tweeks? That's where they told me to go when they fitted by new oem top mounts and various other bits. They have a proper laser alignment system.

They did recommend tweeks, but its an hours drive from where I live and I thought there must be somewhere a little closer who could do it.. plus ive had to juggle having the alignment done around work.. Didn’t realise a specialist car tuner could get it so wrong??

Out of sheer interest what Honda specialist?

I cant remember the name of the Honda place that messed the braided Hoses up it was in Chorley.. I ended up ringing Fred for advice, turns out they let air into the system and didn’t have a pressure bleeder to force the air out.. They tried pumping the pedal frantically for about 3 hours before I called Fred and he told me they would need a pressure bleeder.. they then had to call local workshops at 6pm to find somewhere that had one and got it delivered after 2 hours of searching. The next day I found out they had dripped brake fluid on the plastics in front of the window screen and discoloured them! Cant seem to find a decent all round workshop anywhere, ive completely lost faith in every mechanics

 

[Martin_172]

what a rip off that sounds, i just paid £70 at progrip in falkirk to have eibach camber bolts supplied, fitted and a fast road setup on their hunter system

took john 2 hours as he was talking me everything he was doing and educating me on suspension setup lol but he just charged me 1hrs labour as thats what it would have taken him if he was just himself working away on it! spot on service that!

 

[Cupman29]

my take on it...AST top mounts should be used to give the max castor you can get, then adjust camber with bolts

This!

 

[.Tyler]

Yes and how far is Birchdown from you mate?

Rather travel a bit than get dicked over!

 

[imprezaworks]

+1

 

[Fred@BTM]

Liverpool isn't "that" far from us

 

[imprezaworks]

Wish you were closer

 

[Toastfrenzy]

I use Ast mounts for max caster...3.2 degrees (on a cup) and bolts (or elongated top holes) for camber. The three bolts should all be facing forward towards rad (centrally) on each top mount.
I've paid £100 +vat for the first time I had the geo set up, on a hunter machine and £75 plus vat when set up a 2nd time, using bubble gauges and a bar with two welded arms and a screw threaded piece for toe. Similar to a piece of string I guess. Both set up's were as good as each other, just didn't get a fancy colour printout confirming the figures\set up with the 2nd geo set up, but received loads of tips\advice, cake and tea in lieu. I know where I'll be going back to should the need arise.

But I have also given up trying to keep my AST top mounts in A1 condition......lol

 

[Tony Hunter]

Never leave you car with anybody and expect a top notch job.
Even if means taking a day off work,be there and see the job done if they like it or not,it's your car and you can see it being done,have it explained to you,and talk over any issues or options that may arise.

Nothing wrong with a bit of string and a ruler job,many race cars are set up this way.

 

[Keith185]

As mentioned by Tylinferno, go to Demon Tweeks. Been there and the guy came to me asked what I wanted, talked me through what would work best, road compromise etc.

 

[dave_rudabar]

i'm guessing either this, or the braided-hoses issue, was from tdi?

 

[fletch8]

As mentioned by Tylinferno, go to Demon Tweeks. Been there and the guy came to me asked what I wanted, talked me through what would work best, road compromise etc.

what to demon tweeks charge for alignment?

 

[Keith185]

what to demon tweeks charge for alignment?

Was booked by Birchdown as they did other work on my car, bill came to £36

 

[imprezaworks]

i'm guessing either this, or the braided-hoses issue, was from tdi?

Interesting you should say that

 

[Gaz_]

what to demon tweeks charge for alignment?

It varies, but no more than £50, i've had all my clios done there over the years, never had any issue tbh