West Midlands rolling road day @Viezu!

[Loz H]

Today the west midlands lot got together for a trip down to Viezu for a rolling road day. Was awesome (apart from the weather!) and there were afew suprising results.

Thanks again to @MartinR for organising it and a big shout out to Viezu for being top hosts!

Heres afew pics I took:

Lee's 200T by laurence.hucker1234, on Flickr

Lee's 200t by laurence.hucker1234, on Flickr
Noses by laurence.hucker1234, on Flickr

Megane by laurence.hucker1234, on Flickr

200T Engine Bay by laurence.hucker1234, on Flickr

200 by laurence.hucker1234, on Flickr

Milo by laurence.hucker1234, on Flickr

Noses by laurence.hucker1234, on Flickr

Matts Supra by laurence.hucker1234, on Flickr

Martin's 182 by laurence.hucker1234, on Flickr

200T by laurence.hucker1234, on Flickr

Viva La France, nearly! by laurence.hucker1234, on Flickr

Thanks to everyone that came, was a great laugh! @cs_dave @Badbuzz2 @mharvey @davo172 @Addicted @Ging2013 @Don and anyone else ive missed

Full album is here if anyone's interested:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/124704233@N06/sets/72157645709589109/

 

[Addicted]

Looks good some decent pics there!

Sorry I couldn't stay longer, literally feel dead atm, only just managed to come out! Wanted to see what some of them made too!

Very nice selection of cars there though, nice to see some new RS200's out there at last!

 

[MonacoDan]

Great pics, looks like a good day out. What did yours make on the rollers Loz H

 

[Loz H]

Looks good some decent pics there!

Sorry I couldn't stay longer, literally feel dead atm, only just managed to come out! Wanted to see what some of them made too!

Very nice selection of cars there though, nice to see some new RS200's out there at last!

No worries mate, shame I didnt get any pics of your Golf R!

Yeah they're becoming more common now, im starting to really like them

Great pics, looks like a good day out. What did yours make on the rollers @Loz H

Cheers pal, was a good laugh! 74bhp at the wheels haha :rasp:

 

[Ol’ Tarby]

What were the 200Ts puttin out?

 

[davo172]

Today the west midlands lot got together for a trip down to Viezu for a rolling road day. Was awesome (apart from the weather!) and there were afew suprising results.

Thanks again to @MartinR for organising it and a big shout out to Viezu for being top hosts!

Heres afew pics I took:

Lee's 200T by laurence.hucker1234, on Flickr

Lee's 200t by laurence.hucker1234, on Flickr
Noses by laurence.hucker1234, on Flickr

Megane by laurence.hucker1234, on Flickr

200T Engine Bay by laurence.hucker1234, on Flickr

200 by laurence.hucker1234, on Flickr

Milo by laurence.hucker1234, on Flickr

Noses by laurence.hucker1234, on Flickr

Matts Supra by laurence.hucker1234, on Flickr

Martin's 182 by laurence.hucker1234, on Flickr

200T by laurence.hucker1234, on Flickr

Viva La France, nearly! by laurence.hucker1234, on Flickr

Thanks to everyone that came, was a great laugh! @cs_dave @Badbuzz2 @mharvey @davo172 @Addicted @Ging2013 @Don and anyone else ive missed

Full album is here if anyone's interested:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/124704233@N06/sets/72157645709589109/

Awesome pics yet again loz you are now the official west mids photographer

Great day and a good laugh as always cheers Mart for sorting it and great to see everyone again and some new faces

 

[Loz H]

Awesome pics yet again loz you are now the official west mids photographer

Great day and a good laugh as always cheers Mart for sorting it and great to see everyone again and some new faces

Haha cheers pal :rasp:

 

[alexr19]

Completely forgot about this

 

[MartinR]

Yep great day thanks to all whp attended as its you who make it.

200T's was circa 167 ATW. Nice to have LY , black and flame orange ones there.

Result of tbe day was that white meg putting out 317bhp ATW at 3/4 throttle before backing out due it it burning oil. Lol bet its fun on the road

 

[Matthew]

167 ATW, what does that translate to ATF?

I hope it's at least 197hp, or Renault are at it again...

 

[MartinR]

Was told roughly 22% tranmission loss on the auto box iirc

so 203 roughly

 

[Addicted]

Wow 22% is quite a lot, if that's the case for autos my figure is insane

 

[J333EVO]

167 ATW, what does that translate to ATF?

I hope it's at least 197hp, or Renault are at it again...

It is not just Renault. When an engine is homologated the manufacturer only has to ensure engines are within 90% of that figure, and even then only something like every 100 off the line need checked to meet that standard. AUDI and BMW used that to the full extent and the n/a AUDI RS and BMW M never make the power quoted. My father-in-law was one of the design engineers on the Audi 4.2V8, 5.2 V10 and on various VANOS developments. Small manufacturing tolerances make a difference on highly strung n/a engines that made their power in a climatically controlled dyno cell environment.

Turbo engines are different as you have to think of the accelerator as a torque request button so the ECU in conjunction with traction control system works out how much of the request can be transmitted. Therefore often the cars make more power than quoted but torque is pretty much as quoted as one is a variable of the other. Hence Megane 250/265 etc all normally making more PS than quoted. There are exceptions like the MK2 Focus RS which is often a fair bit under quoted PS, but above quoted for torque. My FIL also developed a Volvo 2.5 5 cylinder engine based on the road engine for a race series in the USA.

Then you have a torque multiplier, otherwise know as a gearbox to further complicate matters. Transmission loses are never a fixed rate described as a percentage. It's a logarithmic scale and normally for FWD the thumb rule us BHP+10 diverted by 0.9. So 167 at the wheels would be 196.66bhp which I believe is exactly the 200PS quoted by Renault. RWD is BHP + 10 divided by 0.8.

Back on topic but I really like the 200T as seeing a lot more about.

 

[Paul.M]

Looks like a good day that, I need to get to a rolling road day myself at some time, I've never been to one.


@J333EVO That was an interesting read, cheers for posting!

So manufacturers could potentially say their cars are putting out 10% more than any of the engines would make if tested and it would be within tolerances? (very simple way of looking at it I know)

 

[J333EVO]

Looks like a good day that, I need to get to a rolling road day myself at some time, I've never been to one.


@J333EVO That was an interesting read, cheers for posting!

So manufacturers could potentially say their cars are putting out 10% more than any of the engines would make if tested and it would be within tolerances? (very simple way of looking at it I know)

Not exactly, as there will be a number of development engines that do meet the publicised figure, and are homologated as such. But they could have had optimised parts that are all at the very tightest of tolerances, i.e the rods and pistons are all nearly exact if not totally exact in weight and balance, the inlets and ports nicely matched. If you consider the high number of parts within an engine you get an idea. They are not exactly blueprinted, but they will have a choice of all the very best of the production parts so that in essence one engine in X amount could be one in that sweet spot, but not all or many dependent on how many are produced and how tight those tolerances are. They then have to pass long term durability which consists of 250hours constant with periods of wide open throttle as well.

They can actually make any amount more than homologated but not less than 90% to ensure people are not being undersold a product. Look at Japanese cars from the Gentlemen's agreement era where all cars are quoted at 276bhp but many made more, often a lot more. Or the speedometers which must always over read to ensure users of the vehicle do not exceed any imposed speed limits breaking any laws in place and then say it was the cars fault in the defence of such a discretion. It's much like anything really from food/drink where you have the letter 'e' after an amount to indicate estimate. Nothin can really be exact.

Whereas on a turbo car you request an amount of torque, the ECU achieves it by increasing or limiting boost as required so way easier to replicate the homologated amount as manufacturing tolerances have less effect. In some ways this is why some of the tradition tuning methods are not used so much as it's easier to just request more boost, but actually breathing or blue printing modifications can have a bigger effect on a turbo car as it eases the requirements of the compressor to over come inherent restrictions and imbalances, therefore making way more power for the same boost which in turn has lower intake temps. Though to be fair modern cars have such small tolerances compared to cars from even 15years ago such is the rate of development.

 

[davo172]

189 atw on mine well pleased with that

 

[B00mer]

What did Mats Supra put out?

 

[Loz H]

What did Mats Supra put out?

My eardrums :rasp:

 

[_Tom]

189 atw on mine well pleased with that

What's been done to it for 189 atw?!

 

[Renault Wolverhampton]

What did Mats Supra put out?

12 iirc

 

[davo172]

My eardrums :rasp:

LOL very true !

What's been done to it for 189 atw?!

Its not a 172 its a Golf gti mk6 std at the minute

 

[_Tom]

Its not a 172 its a Golf gti mk6 std at the minute

Ah that makes a little more sense. What did it estimate at the fly? Are they not only 205bhp standard?

 

[davo172]

Ah that makes a little more sense. What did it estimate at the fly? Are they not only 205bhp standard?

207 bhp 210 ps std Viezu reckon dsg transmission loss is about 20% ish so makes it bout 226ish at the fly .
Most mk6 gtis make a bit more than VW quoted figures.

 

[Addicted]

Nice figures davo172

 

[davo172]

Nice figures @davo172

Lol thankyou sir ! (not as good as yours thou LOL :approve

 

[_Tom]

207 bhp 210 ps std Viezu reckon dsg transmission loss is about 20% ish so makes it bout 226ish at the fly .
Most mk6 gtis make a bit more than VW quoted figures.

Nice! Better than being under powered like some brands.. lol

 

[davo172]

Nice! Better than being under powered like some brands.. lol

LOL