What did I do wrong here?

[Greeny.]

So took the wife out in the track car for the first time at Snet last week and... span on the second lap lol, should of kept my foot in but there you go. Didn't put her off coming out again but still, she was scared of the corner all day

Now im just trying to understand what I did wrong, initially I thought cold rear tyres as im new to using DZ03G's and didn’t realise that they take at least a lap before I can ‘go for it’, I had previously span at very low speed (20-30mph) around the Montreal hairpin on an outlap as I was going in far to aggressively so assumed it was a similar thing but at higher speed. But looking at the below, could it have been lift off oversteer combined with cold rears and extra weight in the car? I did notice when I took the wheels off to drive home that I had very little wear on the inside rear tyres. I’m running standard camber on the rear (checked to be -1.5 each side) so wasn’t sure if this needed adjusting or perhaps my pressures were abit off, I was keeping the rears at around 28-30PSI hot.



Cheers guys,
Dan

 

[imprezaworks]

Yeah could see that happening/no expert mind.

First off we are gonna need pics of wife, will help with any advice imo.

Oh and I want another track clio now lol

 

[JamesBryan]

What compound are your Direzza's? Mine are R1 and they warm up quite quick.

Can't imagine them being that cold to cause it to snap like that.

Probably just unbalanced with no throttle.

Can be slippy that corner from what i've seen on videos.

 

[General Dave]

I'm no expert but i'd say lift off oversteer or quite a sharp steering input on turn in? - main thing is nothing went too wrong ?

 

[RuskiWeldFab]

Yeah you lifted, shifted weight to the front, rear got light, tyres not warm span the car. No harm done! And yeah hard to give advice when wife mentioned with out the pictures [emoji16][emoji23][emoji322]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Greeny.]

What compound are your Direzza's? Mine are R1 and they warm up quite quick.

Can't imagine them being that cold to cause it to snap like that.

Probably just unbalanced with no throttle.

Can be slippy that corner from what i've seen on videos.

R1's as well, glad I went for these over H1's is it?

I'm no expert but i'd say lift off oversteer or quite a sharp steering input on turn in? - main thing is nothing went too wrong ?

I've not had her in the car for a while so I think I may have got away with it without the extra weight shifting about perhaps, I didn't think I was that sharp on the input but perhaps I am, this is the same corner when I managed to get around it in going the correct direction:

 

[Greeny.]

Also lol at the speed of the GT3 Ferrari 488 with Phil Glew behind the wheel coming past, no idea why I pointed to go past, its fairly obvious he was going to do it lol, force of habit I guess.

 

[JamesBryan]

R1's as well, glad I went for these over H1's is it?

Yeah H1 are the harder ones.

How much did you pay for them new? I bought mine used and will need to replace at some point.

 

[Greeny.]

Yeah H1 are the harder ones.

How much did you pay for them new? I bought mine used and will need to replace at some point.

This is from mrtyremotorsport as of March this year:

"Total delivered price for 4 x 195/50R15 DZ03G R1 would be £474.00."

 

[JamesBryan]

This is from mrtyremotorsport as of March this year:

"Total delivered price for 4 x 195/50R15 DZ03G R1 would be £474.00."

Cool, cheers.

 

[Amos91]

Not sure on those tyres but with R888s I can pretty much go for it straight away and not worry about anything like that happening.

Are they new tyres? Wonder if they are really old or something. To be honest, that snapped far too aggressively to be just lift off oversteer or similar.

 

[eon172]

I thought the same, probably a combination of all of the above, apart from wife lol, i.e. tyre temp, liftoff os, slippy/contaminated track. If it was only liftoff os I would have expected it to be more progressive and hence give you chance to counter it.

 

[JamesBryan]

That corner's camber drops away from left to right too.

 

[eon172]

That corner's camber drops away from left to right too.

So even lighter on the o/s rear wheel then!!

 

[JamesBryan]

So even lighter on the o/s rear wheel then!!

Car will naturally want to slide that way towards the outside.

 

[eon172]

Car will naturally want to slide that way towards the outside.

Oops, I'm speaking b****cks, I'm meant more roll/weight transfer on to the outer wheel?

 

[JamesBryan]

Oops, I'm speaking b****cks, I'm meant more roll/weight transfer on to the outer wheel?

It'll want to lean more to the outside yeah and as the camber drops off it takes the grip with it.

 

[eon172]

It'll want to lean more to the outside yeah and as the camber drops off it takes the grip with it.

I expect a little extra negative camber in the rear would help this then?

 

[JamesBryan]

I expect a little extra negative camber in the rear would help this then?

They have -1.5 ish from factory anyway. Just keeping partial throttle on turn in should be enough.

 

[JB21]

My Clio ran standard rear camber and would always wear the inside of the rear tyres so could of been a tyre pressure issue. More than likely over inflated running in the centre of the tread. So couple that with a cold, hard compound tyre and there's your spin.

 

[Greeny.]

I wouldn’t say 28psi is particularly over inflated but that doesn’t mean it was 100% correct.

Another question, I have a lot of pickup on the rear tyres now, more than I ever remember with my old RSR’s, I assume there isn’t an issue moving the rears to the front to clear this off? I don’t know why there would be as I would think rotating the tyres between track days wouldn’t be a bad thing to prolong life? Was impressed with the lack of wear from the DZ03G’s, if anything the rears have more tread now The grip once they were up to temp was amazing, so, so good!

The Dunlops are new btw, can’t remember the date mark but mytyremotorsport wouldn’t sell old shitters, really helpful and decent place tbh, especially as I bet they hate dealing with the public!

It’s strange coming from using RSR’s to a decent spec track tyre as im used to giving it s**t instantly off the first corner but obviously ultimately having less grip.

 

[JB21]

28 cold?

 

[JamesBryan]

Nah that's not over-inflated.

Will be fine swapping the tyres round front to back, although the pickup will fling off after a few laps anyway.

The one thing i noticed with mine was the lack of tyre squeal! Similar to slicks really, no noise at all.

 

[Greeny.]

28 cold?

hot

Nah that's not over-inflated.

Will be fine swapping the tyres round front to back, although the pickup will fling off after a few laps anyway.

The one thing i noticed with mine was the lack of tyre squeal! Similar to slicks really, no noise at all.

Yeh I had 0 squeal, love em! Will never buy anything else for track now unless the price goes crazy.

Just bought some Pure hubcentric 18mm spacers for the front, rears are all good and quite tight in the arch but the fronts have abit of space to play with so might as widen the track abit.


Would lowering the rear slightly help with the balance? The front is already very low so at present I do have some rake going on, however looking at the Mk2 Cup Racers of the time I noticed nearly all of these have extremely low rear ends, not that I would want to go that low and probably couldn’t on my BC’s anyway.

 

[JamesBryan]

hot



Yeh I had 0 squeal, love em! Will never buy anything else for track now unless the price goes crazy.

Just bought some Pure hubcentric 18mm spacers for the front, rears are all good and quite tight in the arch but the fronts have abit of space to play with so might as widen the track abit.


Would lowering the rear slightly help with the balance? The front is already very low so at present I do have some rake going on, however looking at the Mk2 Cup Racers of the time I noticed nearly all of these have extremely low rear ends, not that I would want to go that low and probably couldn’t on my BC’s anyway.

Getting it corner weighed would be the best idea, although it would throw it out a bit when you add a passenger.

 

[robzracing]

The rake definitely won’t be helping the weight transfer. As already said corner weighting would help but you could just drop the rear a little bit at a time and test it yourself.
Secondly, lifting off the peddle and turning in was definitely also a factor.
You can go quicker round the bends if you approach faster, brake more firmly in a straight line and then get straight back in the throttle through the corner.
That particular bend is a little tricky because it needs quite a late turn in. If you turn in too early you can run out of track on the exit and there’s not much run-off there.
Hope that helps and doesn’t sound too patronising! I don’t know what experience you have on track.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Greeny.]

The rake definitely won’t be helping the weight transfer. As already said corner weighting would help but you could just drop the rear a little bit at a time and test it yourself.
Secondly, lifting off the peddle and turning in was definitely also a factor.
You can go quicker round the bends if you approach faster, brake more firmly in a straight line and then get straight back in the throttle through the corner.
That particular bend is a little tricky because it needs quite a late turn in. If you turn in too early you can run out of track on the exit and there’s not much run-off there.
Hope that helps and doesn’t sound too patronising! I don’t know what experience you have on track.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Cheers, I always appreciate input! I’ve done Snet a fair few times and I think I go well enough around it but there is always room for improvement, especially as I’m purely a track day driver.

My front end is currently 10mm lower than the rear, worth altering this do you think? I can get 5mm off the rear if I remove the shim, just need to check the rear spring doesn’t fall out when it’s jacked up think it will be fine on these BC’s though.

 

[Greeny.]

Inside edge of one of my rears, the other is very similar, notice the lack of use!

 

[JamesBryan]

Common on these mate.

Another degree of camber on the rear will use more.

 

[Steve4130]

Could be worse, this was my 197 last year. Lift off over steer at Oulton Park, Island bend. Armco 1 - Clio 0.

 

[Hyperhatch]

Having done it (but not spun) i’d say your were to close to the edge and the rear wheel locked on the gravel/dirt. You can see the definition of the edge of the track/grass changes (comes in) just as the spin starts.