What springs with cup shocks ?

[finch wxm]

Im looking to fit a fresh pair of cup shocks front and rear on my build. Car will be used for fast road and maybe a wet track day ! Was tempted for a set of BC racing shocks but trying to keep costs down !

The shocks appear to have apex springs , its seems to be on the high side but no engine and box installed !

What springs do people rate for fast road and occasional track day ?

 

[RichValver]

Grams 👌

(Silver car)

 

[Mbeau]

I have always found Eibach Sportlines perfect for road and track use. They can also be picked up new for a good price.

I had that set up on my track Cup initially and then Bilstein B14'S. I then moved onto BC coilovers as they had adjustable damping, which the Bilstein didn't. Both were good set ups for the money.

There are then the more expensive stuff like Avo, but these were a bit out of my budget and OTT for what was a track car I used occasionally for fun.

 

[Asher172]

I believe the go to items are the Grams springs from Kam Racing.

 

[Greeny.]

When did everyone switch from using Cooksports to Grams out of interest and whats the reason to do so? Cooksports were the go to spring when refreshing dampeners for a long time.

 

[Simon1975]

Had cooksport on my 172 fitted Grams on my 182 and have to say I preferred the grams similar drop but felt just as stiff but more comfortable at the same time. Have coilovers now but would choose grams every time

 

[massiveCoRbyn]

Standard Cup probably. Most aftermarket springs are too stiff for a road car and, if it's just an occasional track toy, you won't have any less fun in a standard car. Unless you particularly want it lower, I probably wouldn't bother with aftermarket stuff unless you only use it on decent roads.

 

[finch wxm]

The car is stripped so dont mind it being abit stiffer and lower. I had cooksports on my rb many years ago . I might try the grams

 

[Steven103]

I have three specific complaints about cooksports, all of which are related to travel & rate so may be better/worse on other lowering springs but shouldn’t be present on cup springs or decent coilovers.

Fit them & think they’re brilliant due to noticeably reduced roll & balanced shifted rearwards.

Then you notice that the rear ride frequency now matches the length of the concrete slabs that make up part of the A34 when going 60mph ...meaning that for miles of your rush hour commute the front remains compliant whilst the rear bounces up & down by a few cm really quickly.

Then you turn in on a dry trackday and notice that it’s initially quite positive, until the reduced travel means that the outside front wheel engages the bump stop, making the balance shift to understeer.

Then somewhere around mid corner you notice how underdamped it now is in roll as you bounce off of the outside front bumpstop and wallow around a bit as the balance returns to normal. New cup dampers fitted at the same time.

But then that’s what you get for taking a matching spring, damper & bump stop and significantly changing only one of the three.

Would love to try grams or Eibach’s with respect to the above as a comparison.

 

[Kev@KAM]

Being honest our Grams springs are not really designed to be a trackday spring. Theres a compromise with spring stiffness when you know everyone is going to use standard cup dampers with them. With a shorter spring you can make them progressive so they are stiffer as they compress nearer the maximum limits but on track thats relatively easy to get to the limits; especially on a near standard car.

For track i'd argue that the 500lb springs I use on my coilovers could be considered soft though I am standard chassis weight currently

 

[Kev@KAM]

The other issue with standard type springs is ride height. As you increase spring poundage the ride height will increase unless the overall spring height is reduced to compensate. The chassis weight is unable to compress the spring as much. This is also apparent when you strip your car as you get a similar effect of mass acting on the spring in the same manner. A stripped out Clio will sit higher than a full fat Clio fitted with springs such as Grams, Eibach and Cooksport. Arguably this is a good thing to allow the suspension to have more travel due to the softer nature of setup compared to coilovers but not everyone likes the look

 

[imprezaworks]

H&R

 

[497adam]

The other issue with standard type springs is ride height. As you increase spring poundage the ride height will increase unless the overall spring height is reduced to compensate. The chassis weight is unable to compress the spring as much. This is also apparent when you strip your car as you get a similar effect of mass acting on the spring in the same manner. A stripped out Clio will sit higher than a full fat Clio fitted with springs such as Grams, Eibach and Cooksport. Arguably this is a good thing to allow the suspension to have more travel due to the softer nature of setup compared to coilovers but not everyone likes the look

Is there much noticeable difference between grams and Eibach sport lines ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[imprezaworks]

Was always under the impression they were an in-between cooks and sportlines in terms of looks.

 

[Robbie Corbett]

I've done a few hundred miles on cooksports now, had new cup shocks at the same time and I have no complaints. 1000x better than the knackered oem springs and shocks they replaced.

Stiff enough for fast road, soft enough for... the road and not stupid low. I am yet to do a track day on them but my feeling is the setup will be just fine for a leisurely afternoon session but too soft for very sticky tyres (shocks and springs) for much more.

I always find peoples level of acceptance a bit odd - if you want track then go track, but a lowering spring by its very nature offers less travel, sure it might be stiffer and hopefully you stay off the bump stops but the Clio has very little rear suspension travel as it is - I am always surprised by how much travel there is at the front when jacking up though.

Perhaps a good compromise to stiffen the rear would have been an ARB kit - im happy with the balance and road manners though.

 

[finch wxm]

The white clio is going to be for mainly sunday blast as i have my red clio for trackdays fitted with Kw v2's which i need to sort stiffer springs for and get mesurements for.

I need to buy a fresh set of cup shocks but i only have apex springs which i dont think are anygood. I dont see the point of spending on a set of bc racing coilovers for a car that will mainly be used on the roads and might be abit to harsh.

 

[Kev@KAM]

Was always under the impression they were an in-between cooks and sportlines in terms of looks.

Is there much noticeable difference between grams and Eibach sport lines ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sportlines sit higher and have a softer initial spring rate so allow more roll when cornering. Cooksports and Grams are the same rideheight.

H&R

Doesnt solve anything compared to the other brands
The issue really is the dampers as the springs are all designed to work with a damper valved for road use.

 

[imprezaworks]

Ah ok. Again I always thought the cooksoorts sit lower at the rear, the grams don't. Not been around clios for a while so maybe I'm wrong.

But. If I was looking for doing things on a smaller budget I'd be happy with h&r springs on new shocks.

 

[finch wxm]

Im looking at £315 for 4 shocks and springs.

Coilovers , £800 - £900 , i could fit my KW V2's on my white clio and run them on the soft setting could be an option and get the BC Racing coilovers with stiff springs and top mounts and fit them to my track car 🤔.

Is anyone running BC Racing on a pure track car ?

 

[plenty]

The rear spring rate on any coilover is too stiff for the road imo. As there is so little weight at the back, the rear spring rate makes a huge difference to compliance on the road.

On the other hand a stiffer front helps with turn-in as does camber/castor adjustment. On standard struts and rubber top mounts the steering is far too vague for my taste so I run BC DS units at the front with 6 kg springs, solid top mounts and max camber.

For the road I pair this with standard Cup dampers and H+R springs at the rear and a generous amount of ride height to maximise travel. For track I run a lower ride height and swap out the rears for a stiffer setup as you don't need compliance on smooth circuits and extra spring rate at the rear helps rotate the car.

 

[Greeny.]

Im looking at £315 for 4 shocks and springs.

Coilovers , £800 - £900 , i could fit my KW V2's on my white clio and run them on the soft setting could be an option and get the BC Racing coilovers with stiff springs and top mounts and fit them to my track car 🤔.

Is anyone running BC Racing on a pure track car ?

Yes I use them, the slightly older BR Series model with 7Kg front & 8Kg rear springs, very good for the price imo, 0 complaints from me, they were however best part of £300 cheaper when I bought them so perhaps less good value now.

 

[finch wxm]

I have always found Eibach Sportlines perfect for road and track use. They can also be picked up new for a good price.

I had that set up on my track Cup initially and then Bilstein B14'S. I then moved onto BC coilovers as they had adjustable damping, which the Bilstein didn't. Both were good set ups for the money.

There are then the more expensive stuff like Avo, but these were a bit out of my budget and OTT for what was a track car I used occasionally for fun.

Yes i dont want to be spending to much , i have KW V2's on my red car but they feel abit soft for track thats why i was thinking maybe i get some BC Racing for the red car . What springs are you running and have you got the bc solid top mounts ?

 

[Mbeau]

Yes i dont want to be spending to much , i have KW V2's on my red car but they feel abit soft for track thats why i was thinking maybe i get some BC Racing for the red car . What springs are you running and have you got the bc solid top mounts ?

I don't have the track car anymore, but it had the BC coilovers with Ktec solid top mounts. I want to say the springs were 210lb, but that is the figure I have in my head. I found them to be excellent for road and track use. Generally set them all to soft when used on the road and played around with the settings depending on conditions at track day. For the money I could not fault them.

 

[Krarl]

Another vote for Grams

 

[leeds2592]

Another vote for Grams

View attachment 1524930

Did @dann2707 actually come on his pushknacker to that driveout with his skimpy little outfit on?

 

[Krarl]

Did @dann2707 actually come on his pushknacker to that driveout with his skimpy little outfit on?

*Roz from Monsters Inc voice*

I'm watchin' Wazowski... Allllwaaaayysssss watchin'

 

[F12 Josh]

Out of interest for those that know - How do the Bilstein B14s compare to springs on standard shocks, particularly on road comfort?

 

[Kev@KAM]

The Bilstein are about twice as stiff on the front and about the same on the rear.
What the Bilstein has though is massively superior damping so it does not feel twice as stiff.
k.

 

[Deerhound]

Im looking to fit a fresh pair of cup shocks front and rear on my build. Car will be used for fast road and maybe a wet track day ! Was tempted for a set of BC racing shocks but trying to keep costs down !

The shocks appear to have apex springs , its seems to be on the high side but no engine and box installed !

What springs do people rate for fast road and occasional track day ?

Like you Finch, as you can no longer get OEM Cup Springs I'm wanting to know from knowledgable members what sent of coil springs gives the same ride height & performance as the OEM Cup ones for the road only?Be grateful for this infi guys.Cheers

 

[Deerhound]

Like you Finch, as you can no longer get OEM Cup Springs I'm wanting to know from knowledgable members what sent of coil springs gives the same ride height & performance as the OEM Cup ones for the road only?Be grateful for this infi guys.Cheers

 

[gralegav]

I have an unused (I think) set of Mark Fish springs which I'd sell, as they are waiting for me to get another Clio and that isn't looking too likely for a while. Others will know more, but they are designed to work with cup shocks and are ideal for track but still good on the road.

 

[Kev@KAM]

Like you Finch, as you can no longer get OEM Cup Springs I'm wanting to know from knowledgable members what sent of coil springs gives the same ride height & performance as the OEM Cup ones for the road only?Be grateful for this infi guys.Cheers

There are none.
I have a set of Trophy springs I'm tempted to send off, measured and get remanufactured though I dont know whether the 172 cup springs would be more popular. As far as I know the 182 cup and Trophy springs were the same spring rate (from previous posts) I doubt there was a ride height difference either.

 

[NBG182]

Like you Finch, as you can no longer get OEM Cup Springs I'm wanting to know from knowledgable members what sent of coil springs gives the same ride height & performance as the OEM Cup ones for the road only?Be grateful for this infi guys.Cheers

I believe Eibach Pro kit springs sit only very slightly lower than standard cup springs?

Haven't tried them myself (mines on sportlines) but they seem to be the closest available that I know of.

 

[Kev@KAM]

Eibach Prokits are what I generally supply to my customers. I think they lower the RS models 5-10mm which is hardly noticable unless you have two cars sitting next to each other.

 

[Robbie Corbett]

TBH 15 year old stock springs have probably sagged by 5-10mm anyway.

I was driving around on a spring for over a year with the last turn snapped off without noticing.... that must have been a good 10-15mm lower and I was totally ignorant.

 

[Deerhound]

There are none.
I have a set of Trophy springs I'm tempted to send off, measured and get remanufactured though I dont know whether the 172 cup springs would be more popular. As far as I know the 182 cup and Trophy springs were the same spring rate (from previous posts) I doubt there was a ride height difference either.

Think I've spoke to you about this Kev?Are Trophy front springs identical to the Cup ones?, the only difference being the Sachs Dampers?
I think that's a good idea of yours if so, as a lot of guys I'm sure like the height & ride of the OEM Renault Coil Springs 👍

 

[Deerhound]

TBH 15 year old stock springs have probably sagged by 5-10mm anyway.

I was driving around on a spring for over a year with the last turn snapped off without noticing.... that must have been a good 10-15mm lower and I was totally ignorant.

Really Rob?I think I'd defo notice a spring that much lower.
I even notice when tyres are a couple of psi lower!lol!.
I do ride & have raced bikes though & I think that makes you very sensitive to handling , feel etc.

 

[Robbie Corbett]

I bought the car like it having never driven one so I guess didn't have a good comparison. It drove just fine with it broken and I didn't notice one side was especially lower visually, think it was the drivers side and often on old cars the drivers side seems to usually be a little lower than the passenger so just blanked it... but generally drove fine if not a little tired!

When the rear beam bushes became worn the rear steer became un-ignorable though!

I'm much more fussy with bikes!

 

[NBG182]

I bought the car like it having never driven one so I guess didn't have a good comparison. It drove just fine with it broken and I didn't notice one side was especially lower visually, think it was the drivers side and often on old cars the drivers side seems to usually be a little lower than the passenger so just blanked it... but generally drove fine if not a little tired!

When the rear beam bushes became worn the rear steer became un-ignorable though!

I'm much more fussy with bikes!

Mine was exactly the same when I bought it! Even passed an MOT like that - wasn't particularly lower on that side, and the fracture was at the top of the spring, pretty much impossible to spot without having the wheel off.

Fair to say it drives nicer after refreshing all the suspension, but it was surprisingly alright before, all things considered.

 

[Deerhound]

I bought the car like it having never driven one so I guess didn't have a good comparison. It drove just fine with it broken and I didn't notice one side was especially lower visually, think it was the drivers side and often on old cars the drivers side seems to usually be a little lower than the passenger so just blanked it... but generally drove fine if not a little tired!

When the rear beam bushes became worn the rear steer became un-ignorable though!

I'm much more fussy with bikes!

Just shows you how competent the chassis is on a182.
Like a 4 wheel bike!lol!
I'm well OCD with my bike set up!
Has to he spot on doesn't it!🏍👍