Which ones do I save up for :)

[Jonny1*2]

Can't decide which would be the best option to go for;

There are for weekend driving and track use, so need them to be soft ish with the ability to go a bit harder for the track. Presumably both these fit

http://www.kamracing.co.uk/manufact...ilovers-renault-clio-mk2-rs-182-cup-2178.html

or

http://www.europerformance.co.uk/pages/products/product_info.mhtml?product=15251809

(I presume 58mm is the correct hub size for the 182 cup chassis?)

Presume a few people have these, and I know they are both flexible in way of damping, but which are more easy to live with. I presume it's going to be down to the spring stiffness, but can't find any info on the spring rates for the KWs. (also is buying american suspension a good thing? we all know their cars don't handle very well ).

Incidentally, does anyone know the spring rates for the standard cup suspension?

 

[Fred@BTM]

60mm for a 182cup

i don't rate AST's, KW's however are *****tastic

 

[Inferno]

Incidentally, does anyone know the spring rates for the standard cup suspension?

182 2.43/5.04 daNM/mm F/R
182 Cup: 3.19/5.65 daNM/mm F/R
182 Trophy: 3.19/5.65 daNM/mm F/R

 

[Jonny1*2]

60mm for a 182cup

i don't rate AST's, KW's however are *****tastic

I take that means you like them Fred . V2's or 3's?

182 2.43/5.04 daNM/mm F/R
182 Cup: 3.19/5.65 daNM/mm F/R
182 Trophy: 3.19/5.65 daNM/mm F/R

Thanks mate. how come the cup and trophy are the same? :S

 

[Fletcher]

The KW are getting great reviews on here. I'd like to have a go in a car with a set fitted TBH.

 

[Jonny1*2]

58mm is the right hub size for cup/trophy presumably? 54 for all other 1*2

 

[rich-6]

58mm is the right hub size for cup/trophy presumably? 54 for all other 1*2

60mm for cup/trophy

58mm for 172 and non 182 cups

54mm for everything else IIRC

 

[Inferno]

Thanks mate. how come the cup and trophy are the same? :S

Spring rates direct from Renault, I guess they were happy with the spring rates and just improved the damping.

 

[Jonny1*2]

60mm for cup/trophy

58mm for 172 and non 182 cups

54mm for everything else IIRC

Booo, looks like i'm going to have to contact KW to see if they make the fronts with correct spacings still

I still don't understand why renault made the hubs different on these.

 

[Jonny1*2]

I think i'm going to hold out for KW's. Fingers crossed they will make them again and sort out the fitting issues. :S It seems like they are the easiest to live with and adjust, so win win imo. Plus at nearly £300 cheaper I could get top mounts, and ARB and still have change .

Not sure what the spring rates are on them though :S

 

[Da]

I still don't understand why renault made the hubs different on these.

Hubs are strengthened on the Cup Chassis and Trophy Jon, it's to reduce interchangeability. Plus they are slightly wider.

 

[Jonny1*2]

ah, was it to do with the track also? Sucks though Aftermarket stuff is too hard to come by.

 

[Pep]

AST's arent all that, I was impressed with build quality but just didn't seem anywhere near worth their money.

KW's are the s**t, I would go for them over any other set.

 

[Jay Payne]

Im sure the reason everyone dislikes the AST's is down to the setup of them (spring rates/damper setup etc) They dont suit everybody and I had to chagne the spring rates on mine to get them how I wanted

Shame really

 

[Fred@BTM]

as an off the shelf unit though the AST's aren't right compared to zee german stuff

its almost like their R&D dept were like "that'll do"

they could be awesome if the rates were better

 

[Jay Payne]

Agree with you there. Ive always spoken to Curtis and told him what I want. Off the shelf they arent right. You know who did there R&D for them tho dont you?

You will have to have a go in ours when its done

 

[Fred@BTM]

no, but does he look like stevie wonder per chance?

 

[Jonny1*2]

what do you both find wrong with them in general? is the damper adjustability a pain and limited? or is it more due to the spring rate? Ie. standards are too hard or too soft?

 

[K-Tec Racing]

Personally I use AST dampers. We sell both.

I find the KW's dont give the chassis control I like in comparison

I like the fact that I can re valve them, the build quality is excellent.

These are my personal preferences

Andy

 

[Jonny1*2]

Agree with you there. Ive always spoken to Curtis and told him what I want. Off the shelf they arent right. You know who did there R&D for them tho dont you?

You will have to have a go in ours when its done

Who's this by the way Jay, Chris mentioned him earlier.

 

[Jonny1*2]

Personally I use AST dampers. We sell both.

I find the KW's dont give the chassis control I like in comparison

I like the fact that I can re valve them, the build quality is excellent.

These are my personal preferences

Andy

You talking about ast or kw there mate?

Ktec sell AST btw :S

 

[Fred@BTM]

the front is too hard, that's the problem, even with them backed right off the car just feels wrong, out of the 3 car's i've driven on track with them fitted they all had the same problem

at anything approaching my normal speed i struggled to get the thing to turn in, the front end would just push wide, and when applying the power with any amount of lock on, again it was wanting to push wide

the back end however was just about spot on

as i always say its a very personal thing suspension, luckily i had the chance to try AST's and the KW V2's on the same car, same track, within the space of a 2 week period, the difference was night and day!

 

[Jonny1*2]

was it the race/track springs on the ast's though fred? the road setup is 50/40lb/ft F/R which isn't too much different to standard really? IMO you need a flex from the front end in the corners, so too hard wouldnt suit me.

 

[K-Tec Racing]

I was talking about the AST's

they may not suit your driving style Fred.

On track for HARD driving I needed them to be stronger... not softer....

 

[Fred@BTM]

i've driven both road, track and "special" (off fmp's time attack car)

 

[Jay Payne]

Who's this by the way Jay, Chris mentioned him earlier.

Curtis is AST uk. He doesnt work for powerstation anymore he has taken it on as a separate business.

As Fred says suspesnion is a personal thing. I totaly aggree with his thoughts on them, the turn in just isnt right. Understeer is how they are set up.

But I know some people who dont suffer with it so it depends how you drive (Of course we are talking about track driving here, anyone who says they have understeer on the way to the shops is a knob and should slow down)
I did the opposite to what Fred says and stiffened the back, (on advice from Curtis) gives the same result in terms of affecting the balance.

Car went from frustrating understeer when going quickly to a lively back end that you could use to turn the car.

Shadowness noticed the difference from the passenger seat

 

[Fred@BTM]

opposite? eh, i always say hard rear, soft front

i was running the AST's with the front on min and the rear on max and it was better, but just not "there"

 

[Jay Payne]

I ment you said the front was too hard and we stiifened the rear rather than soften the front, didnt write that properly.

 

[Fred@BTM]

ah right got ya!

i've got cup racer rears going on mine, hello sideways!

 

[Jonny1*2]

what you running on the front then mate?

I do fancy the KWs but if no one is going to relaunch them for the cup chassis I think AST is the only option really. I want the ability to adjust really. Track wise obviously. At least then you can tune to personal preference.

 

[Jay Payne]

Springs I run 80 newtons (450 and a bit lbs) at the front and 78.5newtons (450lbs) on the rear

iirc track set up off the shelf is 450/400

 

[Jonny1*2]

hmmm, you obviously like the car to be similar front and back. Presumably works quite well as the hole car should respond quite uniformly.

 

[Jay Payne]

Depends on the car mate but i had a similar spring rates with my old H&R's

 

[Bazzon]

i've driven both road, track and "special" (off fmp's time attack car)

We managed to get ours to where me and carl both like them now, you will have to have another go next season

 

[Jay Payne]

What have you done to them Bazzon? Rear springs were mad stiff on them, my car would be undrivable with it like that

 

[Jonny1*2]

surely too stiff and we get into the rehelms of useless dampers, reduced traction etc.

 

[Bazzon]

What have you done to them Bazzon? Rear springs were mad stiff on them, my car would be undrivable with it like that

We sorted out the top mounts and camber issue first.

This help so so so much it was unbelievable.

We now run it with the rear stupidly stiff, but the front as soft as it can go.

The car turns in brilliantly, but it can be a bit tail happy. We enjoy it like this and its been fast like this last 2 times we have been on track set this way.

PS the car is horrid on the road or any thing that isnt a decent surface

 

[Fred@BTM]

fast in your opinion

 

[drhowser]

price wise the v3's are closer to the ast's. i'm pretty sure they would be built to order, so the bolt spacing shouldn't be an issue.

http://www.yozzasport.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=clio_rs_182_cup_trophy_kw_variant_3_coilover&cat=125

i'd definately go for the kw's if you want some now, but it will be interesting to see what the ast's are like with some more development.

 

[Jonny1*2]

price wise the v3's are closer to the ast's. i'm pretty sure they would be built to order, so the bolt spacing shouldn't be an issue.

http://www.yozzasport.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=clio_rs_182_cup_trophy_kw_variant_3_coilover&cat=125

i'd definately go for the kw's if you want some now, but it will be interesting to see what the ast's are like with some more development.

So the V3's are adjustable on both rebound and compression, whereas the v2's are just rebound?