clio 172
Im running a048s with fk konisports coilovers and was wondering if its worth me buying an ARB will i notice much differance cheers
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Whiteline ARB worth buying ??
- Thread starter Msphotographic
- Start date
It depends on your spring rates and how you like a car to handle.
If you currently have springs at the rear which are not hard enough to give you the roll resistance percentage at the rear which you personally require for how you like a car to handle then its one way to introduce more of that, as would be firmer rear springs or softer front springs.
My advice would be to ignore replies from people who have fitted one to a standard car with totally different springs rates to yours and feel that means it will apply equally to yours where they dont really understand what an ARB does, you get it a lot on this forum.
What do you use the car for?
How would you currently describe its handling characteristics in terms of the ratio of grip front to rear and how that compares with what you would like?
Im a fan of ARB's in general if its a road, so even if your car is spot on now, I would consider going for the ARB and then softer rear springs to get you back to where you have started as it will give a more compliant ride over speed bumps etc while still maintaining roll resistance.
If you currently have springs at the rear which are not hard enough to give you the roll resistance percentage at the rear which you personally require for how you like a car to handle then its one way to introduce more of that, as would be firmer rear springs or softer front springs.
My advice would be to ignore replies from people who have fitted one to a standard car with totally different springs rates to yours and feel that means it will apply equally to yours where they dont really understand what an ARB does, you get it a lot on this forum.
What do you use the car for?
How would you currently describe its handling characteristics in terms of the ratio of grip front to rear and how that compares with what you would like?
Im a fan of ARB's in general if its a road, so even if your car is spot on now, I would consider going for the ARB and then softer rear springs to get you back to where you have started as it will give a more compliant ride over speed bumps etc while still maintaining roll resistance.
clio 172
Thanks for the in depth reply. Im building the clio to be my track car. I have the coilovers set to hard at the moment and as of yet iv not been able to really give the car a good thrashing due to weather. Iv only just fitted the coils and tyres.
Johno_c
ClioSport Club Member
172 Cup
I apprecite what chips said as he knows his s**t.
Ive got koni adjustables on mine put on 2yr ago, fitted a arb before xmas n the difference was incredible. I'd fit one, But thats my personal opinion. ive also done other mods so wouldnt put mine down as a std car lol
Ive got koni adjustables on mine put on 2yr ago, fitted a arb before xmas n the difference was incredible. I'd fit one, But thats my personal opinion. ive also done other mods so wouldnt put mine down as a std car lol
Its the spring rates I am referring to rather than the hardness of the shock absorber.
What you need to do is try the car as it is before you start changing things, and see what you think of its handling, then report back on how you would like it to be changed and then I can advise you on what to do with your spring rates and/or ARB in order to help you achieve that.
You might absolutely love it how it is, or you might hate it,
There is no right and wrong answer that suits everyone, so YOUR opinion is what counts.
For example, me and my girlfriend have a clio we own half each, she uses it as a daily and we both use it occasonally on track and for ring trips.
Our current setup:
Cup shocks and eibach springs, which perfectly suit her for road driving which is its main purpose and its pretty reasonable on track, although leans a little too much which we really notice at places like Spa with its off camber bends, but at the ring its a great compromise still though, so where you are going to use the car matters a lot.
Now if it was for her to use only on track, she would want coilovers on and a lot firmer than now but with the balance very much how it is now (ie the ratio of rear spring/arb strength compared to the front being the same, so I would make both harder by the same amount), this endows the car with a very slight tendancy to understeer , which suits her as she has only ever driven fwd cars and has a very neat and tidy driving style.
If it was for me to use on track, I would also want coilovers on it and a lot firmer than now but in doing so I would use either the spring rates or ARB rates to move the balance of stiffness rearwards so that it was far more lively at the back on track as I drive a lot of RWD cars and just generally like a loose backend on a car so that I can get the car sliding about a bit as I have a quite aggressive driving style.
Handling is very much about the way the car is driven, and where its driven, there isnt just one correct answer.
What you need to do is try the car as it is before you start changing things, and see what you think of its handling, then report back on how you would like it to be changed and then I can advise you on what to do with your spring rates and/or ARB in order to help you achieve that.
You might absolutely love it how it is, or you might hate it,
There is no right and wrong answer that suits everyone, so YOUR opinion is what counts.
For example, me and my girlfriend have a clio we own half each, she uses it as a daily and we both use it occasonally on track and for ring trips.
Our current setup:
Cup shocks and eibach springs, which perfectly suit her for road driving which is its main purpose and its pretty reasonable on track, although leans a little too much which we really notice at places like Spa with its off camber bends, but at the ring its a great compromise still though, so where you are going to use the car matters a lot.
Now if it was for her to use only on track, she would want coilovers on and a lot firmer than now but with the balance very much how it is now (ie the ratio of rear spring/arb strength compared to the front being the same, so I would make both harder by the same amount), this endows the car with a very slight tendancy to understeer , which suits her as she has only ever driven fwd cars and has a very neat and tidy driving style.
If it was for me to use on track, I would also want coilovers on it and a lot firmer than now but in doing so I would use either the spring rates or ARB rates to move the balance of stiffness rearwards so that it was far more lively at the back on track as I drive a lot of RWD cars and just generally like a loose backend on a car so that I can get the car sliding about a bit as I have a quite aggressive driving style.
Handling is very much about the way the car is driven, and where its driven, there isnt just one correct answer.
And going on from what Chip has said which is good sound advice , i would say how do you find the turn in on your current setup ? do you consistently hit apexes ok or do you struggle and maybe hit 6 out of 10 ,
the rear arb will dial in (or have the ability too ) a looser rear , however before doing anything , when you had the coilovers fitted have you had the car fully setup (with you in it) eg corner weights and full geo .
then try the car and find out how it feels and what you want from it .
The best thing you can do is read up on what the specific geo changes do , how anti roll bars affect handling what camber and caster and toe do to a car . These things if setting up your own car and certainly from a competent track driver are essential to begin to understand (know the basics to start with) how it is behaving and thus what you need to change to make it better for the way you drive .
Also before investing lots in changing the car , spend a few sessions with a driver coach , find out if its you not hitting apexes for example because your not turning in at the right times , or carrying too much speed etc .
As Chip has alluded to you have to get all the ducks in a row ..... and understand why the car is doing what it is .
i would try a nice dry track day and get used to the tyres and coilover setup first and work from there , and fwiw the rear arb will benefit more in the summer than in colder temps .
the rear arb will dial in (or have the ability too ) a looser rear , however before doing anything , when you had the coilovers fitted have you had the car fully setup (with you in it) eg corner weights and full geo .
then try the car and find out how it feels and what you want from it .
The best thing you can do is read up on what the specific geo changes do , how anti roll bars affect handling what camber and caster and toe do to a car . These things if setting up your own car and certainly from a competent track driver are essential to begin to understand (know the basics to start with) how it is behaving and thus what you need to change to make it better for the way you drive .
Also before investing lots in changing the car , spend a few sessions with a driver coach , find out if its you not hitting apexes for example because your not turning in at the right times , or carrying too much speed etc .
As Chip has alluded to you have to get all the ducks in a row ..... and understand why the car is doing what it is .
i would try a nice dry track day and get used to the tyres and coilover setup first and work from there , and fwiw the rear arb will benefit more in the summer than in colder temps .
clio 172
Wow thanks for the replys i think for the money im paying for it il get it and give it a try and if i dont like it il sell it on. Once again thanks for the info
Scrooge
ClioSport Moderator
E55 AMG
I personally wouldn't have the FK coilovers on fully hard, after a lot of playing I found that 3/4 of the way was best. I had Eibach pro springs on the back and a whiteline ARB as the FK springs were viscious on the back. As Chip says the spring rates make a difference. I think if you're using the FK springs it may just get to hard around back.
clio 172
Sound well its going in for full geo and corner weighting this weekend il also adjust the dampening aswell il give the 3/4 hardness ago aswell cheers
clio 172
I pref abit of oversteer to be honest
It would probably be a benefit to you then. But you need to see how your car handles on just the coilovers first and then decide. They can be a bit oversteery anyway if all the weight is out of the back.
This, great info from chip too.
clio 172
think from all the info you have given me today think im going to forget about the ARB for tie being ,make sure the car is set up correctly, go out enjoy the car on track see how it reforms then il see if i fancy one, thanks again everyone
imprezaworks
ClioSport Club Member
Mk5 Golf GTI :)
At the end of the day if for any reason you didnt like it, it would sell very easily on here
clio 172
o your right pal, i need to car the cars geo set up but strggling like mad to find any where localish, do you know any where
imprezaworks
ClioSport Club Member
Mk5 Golf GTI :)
Where you from dude?
clio 172
near liverpool, well ormskirk
imprezaworks
ClioSport Club Member
Mk5 Golf GTI :)
Ah ok. I would recomend either Grinspeed in Preston or blink motor sport Cheshire, prob the latter tbh mate I found them superb
imprezaworks
ClioSport Club Member
Mk5 Golf GTI :)
This ^^. His attention to detail is what others shoud aspire too tbh
Further than the rest but http://www.corneringforce.com/contact.html
IMHO Simon roberts at cf is as good as it gets. But trouble is you'll spend 3 grand there just on setup to really get the most from his skills. Although he will just do the basics if you want.
He is deffo in my top ten of people i respect in the car world.
clio 172
thanks for all the info guys, il get it booked in at blink, cheers
imprezaworks
ClioSport Club Member
Mk5 Golf GTI :)
You won't be disappointed mate. Mention the forum, see if there is any cheeky discount to be had lol
clio 172
ha ha just sent them an email , will he reconmend geo setting, is it worth getting it corner weightedd, i dont really under stand it
imprezaworks
ClioSport Club Member
Mk5 Golf GTI :)
They will reply but may take a day or so mate. Tbh just tell them what you use the car for and they will advise you.
pointless doing anything else if you don't corner weight it ....... its a basic first step in car setup and you always work from there , another term you may have heard is having a car flat floored , as corner weights and any geo settings are done from the datum point of a totally flat floor .
clio 172
im new to all of this so i havent ha ha but all this info is great, how much is it normaly for corner weighting ??
imprezaworks
ClioSport Club Member
Mk5 Golf GTI :)
I was allways under the impression corner weighting was for the more track focused person?
clio 172
mine is a track focaused car , but i will take it out for the odd drive on the road??
will corner weighting still be a benifit
will corner weighting still be a benifit
Agreed.
if you might have a 100kg passenger one day and not the next on a road or track day car what do you do for corner weights? Or like for me and my mrs where I'm 30kg heavier than her and either of us could be driving etc.
clio 172
thats a fair point to be honest
no idea what Richard charges to be honest , have a chat with him .
in the mean time some more info
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/understanding-corner-weights/
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/shocking-behavior/
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/lean-less/
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/roll-with-it/
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/tilt/
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/dialed-in/
and know i haven't read them but grass routes has had decent articles in the past so the basics will be correct ........
the truth is that setting up cars really is a black art , as chip has said before there is no right setup , because if it was that easy race teams would not spend what they do on testing .........
you can get so deep in the whole thing you can totally loose yourself , and the simple fact is tracks change and evolve as a day goes on , understand a bit about it and watching F1 practice before race days becomes a little more interesting as you see things evolving .......
Richard at blink is a nice guy , he knows his stuff and will be gentle ,
in the mean time some more info
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/understanding-corner-weights/
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/shocking-behavior/
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/lean-less/
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/roll-with-it/
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/tilt/
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/dialed-in/
and know i haven't read them but grass routes has had decent articles in the past so the basics will be correct ........
the truth is that setting up cars really is a black art , as chip has said before there is no right setup , because if it was that easy race teams would not spend what they do on testing .........
you can get so deep in the whole thing you can totally loose yourself , and the simple fact is tracks change and evolve as a day goes on , understand a bit about it and watching F1 practice before race days becomes a little more interesting as you see things evolving .......
Richard at blink is a nice guy , he knows his stuff and will be gentle ,
Clio Trophy 463
Yea agreed, I noticed a difference on track but would say its not worth it on the road. It can be useful after fitting coilovers etc and can be handy to find any possible defects with your suspension that you wouldnt have noticed but for your average joe on his back lane blat home from work its not nessesary. These clio's do tend to be pretty even anyway.
only 30kg?
Flol. Ok 40.
