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Willy vs 16v 0-60



R

ReNWiLL



I am NOT trying to start a war here !.

While I was pondering over which car to buy, I did my homework and alot of places gave the Willy a 0-60 time of 6.9-7.2 secs. When test driving them, before I actually purchased my Willy 2, I drove lots of valvers and found them not to be as rapid on acceleration. Which brings me to this, a quote from Top gears review of the Williams:

Quote:

Looking at our 0-60mph time of 7.7 seconds you may not think that’s any more rapid than an ordinary 16v with 13bhp less. But looking at Top Gear’s own, previously unpublished performance figures on a Clio 16v with equally low mileage, the Williams is just over a second quicker to 60mph.

:Unquote

Does this actually mean that a willy is 6.7 capable or a valver is 8.7 0-60 capable ?. Of course I am refering to a standard car, nothing like Nicks beastie that caught up to me with ease when my foot was on the floor at a previous southend Cliosport meet.

Tell me people ?. This is in no way an attempted DIS at valvers as all perfomance clios have my utmost repect. Its merely just to ask what you all think ?.

The full review is here:

http://www.topgear.com/servlet/tg?DEST=/content/jsp/individualRoadTest.jsp&event=1110&MAKE=Renault:D6&MODEL=Clio:A2&roadTestNumber=14.htmlhttp://www.topgear.com/servlet/tg?DEST=/content/jsp/individualRoadTest.jsp&event=1110&MAKE=Renault:D6&MODEL=Clio:A2&roadTestNumber=14.html

The bit that made me proud was this:

In short, the Clio Williams is the finest hot hatch ever



:) Bill.
 
C

Craggy

  mk2 172


tis that:D, mine could do that sub 7 including the two gearchanges, now it does it in second, well its better.



just bought a shed to store all the bits cos the garage is full, let the disection of the williams begin!
 
R

RobFenn



Id agree, the williams is the most complete hot hatch ever in driving terms (205 incl). Though times have moved on and as an overall package the 172/cup are better, easily.
 
R

RSTDL



NNnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnooooooooooooooooo....................

Please no more this vs that...........aaarrggggghhhhhh , as they used to say in the action man comics (in a little bubble) When ever someone died it was always "aaarrgggghhhhhhhhh"
 
R

ReNWiLL



John,

I have no problem with that at all, yours just been chipped, mine getting done after xmas....sure I will deffo accomodate you.

You also have a digi corder yes? :)



Bill
 
night.icon

night.icon



chipped and dented now - lol

well ill pinch my dads old sony vid cammera as that better than my little camera for video, but yeh i bhould get mine back on boxing day ill take u on a burn if u want maybe the weekend



john
 
2

2 live

  williams and trophy


hehe a quick sprint....

is anyone invited or is it a private party??????????

the 172s are no probs for the willy but havnt raced a cup .........................yet
 
N

Nick Read

  BMW 320d Sport


Well Bill theres only one way of knowing, take up John on his offer, although its not quite as standard as it was.

Anyway as a 16v owner, I will always rate the Williams, and IMHO it is the best hot hatch *ever* - as a souped up version of the 16v it had to be! To my mind hot hatches mean one thing - mid 80s to mid 90s front wheel drive hatchbacks with too much engine in too small a car. Obviously the Golf GTi was before the mid 80s but it holds true for all the rest. Nowadays theyre mostly thought of as warm hatches because theyre not as quick as the hatches of today. But they were quick back in the day and they can still catch people out nowadays. Hence I think the 172/Cup are great cars, and by todays standards, they are hot hatches and bloody quick and nimble with it. But they werent around during the classic hot hatch era.

Anyway, my experience is that a good standard Willy will do a high 7s 0-60 and a 16v hovers around the 8 second mark, although there are a few exceptions that seem a lot quicker. I bet there are a lot more that you *dont* hear about that are a lot slower than standard though! The Willy has the pulling power in every gear though which the 16v doesnt. Comparing like for like (ie both bog standard), a Willy will always out-drag a valver in any situation whether rolling or standing start, simply because of the extra torque.
 
B

Ben H



Someone on here said recently that its 60% car and 40% driver and I agree with that. If you have the knack of keeping a 16v "on the boil", then a Willy wont exactly muller a 16v. Id have said that most traffic light grand prix between a 16v and Willy would be inconclusive.

But proper out-of-corner and varied revs driving would really see the Willy come out tops.

Unlike the Cup/172, the Willy isnt a 16v on a diet. Its a 16v with low down torque.

Ive never seen my mates Williams 3 pull ahead of my other mates standard 16v off the mark - not until well after 60 anyway. There are tests out there that give the 16v a 0-60 in the low 7s - even some 19 16vs with similar figures! Its well known that both 16v and Williams Clios vary quite a lot in terms of output and performance.

But the Williams is much quicker is on pick up if youre not "on the boil" and in the 16vs sweet spot. You dont have to wait for the 16vs post 4500rpm thrust in the Willy - its just there. 0-60 doesnt show that!
 
2

2 live

  williams and trophy


yep the valvers and the williams are very close......1.1. secs over 1/4 mile with same mods n same driver..............me which is about a cars legnth or just over. but the willy is a far better all round car than the valver, and faster than the 172ss
 
L

Leigh

  Clio Williams 1, 182,197


Mmmmmmmm tell me when you 2 are gonna do this test !!

I wanna be there and i also want to put the stage 2 up against Johns valver and Bills Willy.

I HAVE GOT FIND OUT HOW QUICK IT IS NOW, I KNOW ITS QUICKER BUT

HOW MUCH QUICKER ??????

THE THREE OF US ALL MUST HAVE ABOUT THE SAME WEIGHT IN ICE AS WELL SO THAT MAKES IT MORE INTERESTING.

LEIGH
 
E

Eddd

  Clio 197


The true test would be on the ring, track or a special stage where quite often you are well out of the power band in a given gear but to drop down a cog really wouldnt gain anything. The low down torque would certainly decide the case in the favour of the Willy in these cases.
 
2

2 live

  williams and trophy


should have said 3 car legnths lol

.5 sec is about a car legnth just........depending on the legnth of the winning car lol

my old valver used to pul 15.9 with filter n zorst mods at york dragway.... the willy 14.8. the valver wouldnt be far behind most of the 172 times iv seen there either.
 
B

Ben H



I was really surprised to see that most of the Williams at the Bury RR day made more power at the wheels than the majority of the 172s.

I was also surprised to see in PGTi how much quicker Matt Browns 2.0 converted Clio 16v (basically a Willy engine) was than cars like the 306 GTi-6 and 106 GTi. The 0-100 time was astounding - better than Neils Clio V6, the throttle bodied VTS/309 Mi16 and about the same as the 205 GTi 1.9 with a turbo!

Very, very quick cars those 2.0 F7Rs!
 
T

teady172

  S2000


Simon - The same as a Mk2!

2 Live - I think youre forgetting the fact, that if you stick a capable driver into a 172 it is capable of doing sub 15s 1/4 mile runs. Generally a Williams will not be as quick as a 172!

Has anyone ever let you loose in a 172 on the strip? Im sure youd go into the 14s!
 
C

Craggy

  mk2 172


teady, having been at york and done many a run there im 99% certain a standard 172 cant do 15s. trev ms had a freak result at 14.9 but thats about it and his isnt standard.
 
T

teady172

  S2000


Craggy,

I disagree! At Crail i was running 15.0xs dead all day one of the runs was 15 dead with a fluffed gear change, so I know its deffo possible.

AFAIK Trev M only had a back box, that makes no difference whats so ever!
 
T

teady172

  S2000


Infact if i was getting the times the other 172s were getting Id of got shot of the 172 a long time ago!! The oficial Reno time is 15.0, so theres always room to dip under that!!
 
C

Craggy

  mk2 172


funny how they all get 15.2 at best!, think trevs was de-catted but i wont bet on it, also trev was running 15.5 or summat all day then that happened from nowhere, ci may be wrong but something could have fukt up.also i get the impression from things iv read allover the net that crails timing is "optimistic" for instance impreza boy getting 15.3 or 15.4 in his vts, no standard vts ever runs lower than about 15.6 at the ultimate best, that would be a freak time so...............
 
T

teady172

  S2000


Scoobynetters swear by crails timing gear so ill go with them on that one. Also if its good enough for Clarkeson its good enough for me! Also I was there when ImprezaBoy ran that time, infact he ran it against my (still running in) car, I can certainly vouch for that car, it was fappin quick!

Just had a quick look at the Cliosport 1/4 mile times, I didnt relise that seomone else at Crail had run a similiarly low time, who are you mate make yoursef known!

BTW Trev told me at the time that it was only a back box!
 
C

Craggy

  mk2 172


youll have to come to york for a true comparison against all the other clios, then everyone can prove there worth, just leve everything except the steering wheel in bonnie scotland cos competition will be stiff:D
 
C

Craggy

  mk2 172


i noticed that!, his is near identical to yours aint it, ps, they will swear by it cos one of there scoobs runs really fast times there!, i however dont know! only what iv read so dont shoot the messenger, a few people take the mess from england saying its the cold air up there and all that!, i dont care tbh, 15.0 good on ya, next time leave a lot of bits at home and youll see 14s.
 
2

2 live

  williams and trophy


yeah but ive also read in articles at crail thrash of 172s beating v6 clios down the strip(in standard trim).

so my willy must be able to fairly seriously embarass the v6s (which i doubt)on the strip.

its all so and so said this and he said that......... the only way to sort it out is to use the same rolling road or drag strip ......whichever way you want to make public your achievements.

personally ill only use yorks timing setup to let me know how quick a car is because i know york , the surface and the times other cars usually run there. santa pod is a slightly faster strip (if you can get on it)than york and so i believe is crail.

and teady mate no noone has let me loose in a 172 down the strip yet lol and to be honest with you itd take a lot of arm twisting to get me to take someone elses car down the strip......... if owt breaks its the old WHO PAYS thing innit lol
 
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