Working in IT

[Mr Squashie]

I'm wanting to get into the IT sector as there seem to be an abundance of job opportunities, but I honestly have no idea where to start.

Should I look at programming, and if so then which programming language should I look for? Or should I look into more general IT support, like help desk kind of work? Or even project management, but I have no idea what that actually means.

What I really want is something that will enable me to walk straight into an entry level job, without having to also have multiple years of experience and knowledge of various other systems. So if it's possible to do a course in Python or something that employers will see and ignore the fact that I have no experience with computers aside from Excel etc, that would be great.

I don't care if I end up getting a job that's usually aimed at people who've just left school, as long as it's something I can progress from, because my current work experience is essentially useless over here in Poland without being able to speak Polish as well.

 

[charltjr]

First thing is what do you want to do. “IT” is a vast field and I’d suggest you need to narrow down your criteria a bit.

It can be as soul destroying as any other job if you’re stuck doing something you don’t enjoy.

Entry level anything you’re up against kids but life experience and maturity can work for you as long as you’re happy with entry level salaries. Project management might be a bit of an ask as to do it well you need an appreciation of the whole area, but if you can get a relevant qualification then I’m sure there will be opportunities.

What do you like doing? Are you a natural problem solver, do you like making things, are you a planner? Fit it to your natural aptitude and no reason it won’t work.

 

[massiveCoRbyn]

Surely if you can operate the on/off button, you're qualified for pretty much any IT role?

 

[Mr Squashie]

First thing is what do you want to do. “IT” is a vast field and I’d suggest you need to narrow down your criteria a bit.

It can be as soul destroying as any other job if you’re stuck doing something you don’t enjoy.

Entry level anything you’re up against kids but life experience and maturity can work for you as long as you’re happy with entry level salaries. Project management might be a bit of an ask as to do it well you need an appreciation of the whole area, but if you can get a relevant qualification then I’m sure there will be opportunities.

What do you like doing? Are you a natural problem solver, do you like making things, are you a planner? Fit it to your natural aptitude and no reason it won’t work.

That's me secret, I find every job soul destroying

The entry level salary wouldn't be an issue for me, as long as I get a foot in the door then I don't mind starting at the bottom. The project management thing wasn't really something I'd considered until recently as my girlfriend's sister has started doing some qualifications in project management and mentioned it in passing. My immediate thought was "how can you manage a project if you don't know what people are actually doing?" but maybe i'm just not understanding what project management actually entails, and am getting it confused with a supervisory role. Thought I'd ask anyway as it's all Greek to me!

 

[ChrisR]

As above, have a bit of a think as to what it is you might want to do and it'll help point you in the right direction.

Developer or Support are two pretty different tracks you could take, arguably one might be easier to get into than the other, but try and suss out what sort of thing you think you'd like to be doing first and take it from there.

 

[Krarl]

There is decent money in SRE work but it's mostly DevOps now. Learn some python if you want to sit behind a desk all day but you kinda need to fall on your feet with a junior position

Alternatively, see if there's any Datacentre engineer work going, most of the time yes you're starting off lower down but you get exposed to a hell of a lot more stuff. That's where I started off and now I run the operations at my DC

One lad that worked here is now in an entry level SRE position and he's making about 35k, another went to networks and is doubling that and another went to program POS devices. Most of the people that leave our place go on to earn £40k+ straight off the bat. Because you get a bit of everything it can open a lot of doors and most of the time if you're working in a DC you're doing 12 hours a day, where there's at least 1-2 hours where you can be learning other stuff

Just something to consider since most entry level Datacentre positions only require basic hardware knowledge and the same again for OS/Network/programming

 

[charltjr]

My immediate thought was "how can you manage a project if you don't know what people are actually doing?" but maybe i'm just not understanding what project management actually entails, and am getting it confused with a supervisory role.

You've put your finger straight on the problem with project management in this sector. You get newly qualified PMs with their goddamn gantt charts and "how things should work" who are all about making sure the customer is happy yadda yadda yadda and they just completely f**k it all up because they have no clue about the real world.

Annnnnnd.... breathe

Unless you're going for a true generalist role, and that datacentre work is a good shout there, it's definitely a good idea to work out what would be a good fit for you just from the view of getting a job. The number of times I've heard "I want to do support to get a foot in the door before moving on to be a developer" - well, sorry, you don't want to do support then so we don't want to employ you. They are fundamentally different roles, albeit there can be significant overlap in the technical skill set.

 

[Advikaz]

There's many aspects and specialisms to IT mate, so I can see the confusion. I would say that most people start off on a helpdesk/support function. It's a good opportunity to learn stuff though and shouldn't be underestimated. As said, you will often be up against kids, but they are sometimes lazy and lack life experience so you do have an advantage here. The money generally isn't great at grass roots, however if you get some wind in your sails the money in IT goes up pretty steeply (especially if you go contract) and even more so if you are outside of IR35. My old Programme manager was on 3k a day.

There will be a lot of people with certificates coming out of their ears that are useless (people that do prince 2 and think they are a PM drive me up the wall/are the bane of my life) especially jobsworth business analysts, my opinion is that if you are a good learner, a practical person you will do well in IT. Many support functions have ITIL type arrangements, these can be loose, but generally follow a 1st, 2nd and 3rd line process. This IMO is good for newbies as they have an obvious path to follow. 2nd liners are generally 'jacks of all trades' and 3rd (sometimes 4th as well in some places) can have specialisms.

Find a company that will give you loads of exposure! Cloud and Security is pretty hot right now and is the way the tides are going at present. Pick an industry that's future proof as well. I followed the money and went for Finance.

I've been in IT for years as my main role. I started out as an engineer and moved up in to 3rd line and then architecture. From there on I moved in to Project Management, Programme Management and am now a Consultant Solutions Architect in Alternative Investment. I guess you could say I am a bit of a jack of all trades. But I know enough about a lot of things which makes me useful. I am also the type that runs towards a fire and not away, which a LOT of people in IT seem to be runaway types from my experience, with s**t interpersonal/comms skills. If you can crack that, then you are laughing IMO as you will be a rarity.

Happy to offer advise here and there, for what it's worth.

 

[ChrisR]

with s**t interpersonal/comms skills.

Don't underestimate this, I might not be the most technically gifted person in a room but for some reason I can speak to people 'properly', which helps no end and is a vaulable skill.

 

[Mr Squashie]

There will be a lot of people with certificates coming out of their ears that are useless, my opinion is that if you are a good learner, a practical person you will do well in IT.

That's one of the biggest concerns I have to be honest, I've seen so many different courses and qualifications and it's hard to know which of them are useful or meaningful to employers. I'm currently doing a free introductory course to Python just to see what it's all about, and see if programming is something I enjoy.
Thankfully I've always been a quick learner and enjoy being hands on with stuff, so that's not a huge concern.

 

[Advikaz]

Don't underestimate this, I might not be the most technically gifted person in a room but for some reason I can speak to people, which helps no end and is a vaulable skill.

I would say this is one of the most important things to have tbh, especially if you go in to management. Nobodies going to be interested in you as a candidate if you can't get on a level with an individual, articulate, read the room/deliver to the person you are speaking to etc etc.

You can't learn that stuff from taking exams. Which is why there is so many s**t project managers around.

 

[Advikaz]

That's one of the biggest concerns I have to be honest, I've seen so many different courses and qualifications and it's hard to know which of them are useful or meaningful to employers. I'm currently doing a free introductory course to Python just to see what it's all about, and see if programming is something I enjoy.
Thankfully I've always been a quick learner and enjoy being hands on with stuff, so that's not a huge concern.

Exams are box ticking exercises when you are green iMO. They do teach you a common language though. MS do have some free ones if exams are your thing. Truth be told there's an exam for EVERYTHING these days. And you are right, it is absolutely confusing.

I think you need to get an idea of what you want to do/what areas interest you mate and go from there... personally. I think Service desk is a good starting point because you can get an idea of what a lot of different departments do, and then make your mind up.

You mention dev stuff, a lot of devs I work with are self taught and then take courses to bolster this.

Just my view ofcourse, there is numerous ways to skin the IT cat, so to speak.

 

[Clart]

I've recently been through hiring contractors and hired 2 guys that have worked in IT their whole lives, good experience and qualifications etc. Came across well in the interview, but put them in a high pressure role and they simple cannot handle it.

Our IT support is bit different as its a large JIT manufacturing plant and the ability to work well under pressure and make the right decisions is the biggest part of the job.

I binned them off pretty quickly after unsuccessful periods and ended up hiring a guy that worked for our company for 20 years, ZERO IT experience but he knew the business, the people and more importantly how to work under pressure.

Best appointment i ever made tbh. Dont' get hung up on qualifications - in the rear world they mean absolutely f**k all.

I'm doing Prince 2 agile training at the moment and about 90% of it is absolute b****cks and not applicable to IT project managment IMO.

 

[Krarl]

I've interviewed people way overqualified for some positions but it just turns out they're a hermit and have no skills for talking or communicating

Some of the time they don't even turn up to the interview (not exactly hard, it's on Zoom). I wouldn't bother with courses or that bullshit until you've had a good go at self-learning and applying for jobs. If there's a dealbreaker where they say they require X then start looking into it

 

[Advikaz]

I've recently been through hiring contractors and hired 2 guys that have worked in IT their whole lives, good experience and qualifications etc. Came across well in the interview, but put them in a high pressure role and they simple cannot handle it.

Our IT support is bit different as its a large JIT manufacturing plant and the ability to work well under pressure and make the right decisions is the biggest part of the job.

I binned them off pretty quickly after unsuccessful periods and ended up hiring a guy that worked for our company for 20 years, ZERO IT experience but he knew the business, the people and more importantly how to work under pressure.

Best appointment i ever made tbh. Dont' get hung up on qualifications - in the rear world they mean absolutely f**k all.

I'm doing Prince 2 agile training at the moment and about 90% of it is absolute b****cks and not applicable to IT project managment IMO.

Always makes me laugh, people that go on about Prince2 etc. It was derived from the public sector.... who have the worst track record of delivering anything!

If you managed a project and rely on P2, you would be delivering it forever You can't get away with that in my sector. You do what needs to be done to get s**t done.

 

[boultonn]

Think most people above have said the most important bits.
Start off in a role that exposes you to a bit of everything like support or what others have suggested data centres.
See what you enjoy then follow that.
Back in the day when I was doing 2nd line support there was a guy who was doing lots of security stuff, showed me the ropes and that’s the path I chose, good money and job security so something to consider.

 

[Advikaz]

I've interviewed people way overqualified for some positions but it just turns out they're a hermit and have no skills for talking or communicating

Some of the time they don't even turn up to the interview (not exactly hard, it's on Zoom). I wouldn't bother with courses or that bullshit until you've had a good go at self-learning and applying for jobs. If there's a dealbreaker where they say they require X then start looking into it

This drives me up the wall as well. People that are technically good at their jobs but you cannot rely on them. The types that just cannot get their s**t together and are constantly missing meetings and deadlines.

 

[Clart]

Always makes me laugh, people that go on about Prince2 etc. It was derived from the public sector.... who have the worst track record of delivering anything!

If you managed a project and rely on P2, you would be delivering it forever You can't get away with that in my sector. You do what needs to be done to get s**t done.

100%

 

[Hixle]

Don't underestimate this, I might not be the most technically gifted person in a room but for some reason I can speak to people 'properly', which helps no end and is a vaulable skill.

SaaS Sales checking in 👋

 

[ChrisR]

SaaS Sales checking in 👋

I'll be back working as an SE next week after 7 months of doing something else, yay

 

[Hixle]

I'll be back working as an SE next week after 7 months of doing something else, yay

Excellent! I’m trying my best not have a mental breakdown in Q4, why do we do this to ourselves?

 

[Hixle]

Think most people above have said the most important bits.
Start off in a role that exposes you to a bit of everything like support or what others have suggested data centres.
See what you enjoy then follow that.
Back in the day when I was doing 2nd line support there was a guy who was doing lots of security stuff, showed me the ropes and that’s the path I chose, good money and job security so something to consider.

Solid advice.

I’d suggest support. Most pub sec orgs are always hiring, as they tend to throw people at problems rather than technology.

 

[Advikaz]

Solid advice.

I’d suggest support. Most pub sec orgs are always hiring, as they tend to throw people at problems rather than technology.

MSP's are also not a bad shout (if it's not a s**t one). As you'll get tonnes of exposure. And it'll certainly acclimatise you to stress and workloads

 

[Krarl]

SaaS Sales checking in 👋

Don't try to bring sales into IT Luke, you horrible horrible person 😂

 

[Advikaz]

I feel like this thread is going to become a soft space for us 'I.T Bods' to cry together.

 

[ChrisR]

Don't try to bring sales into IT Luke, you horrible horrible person 😂

He can't hear you way up there sat on his mountain of money

 

[Hixle]

Don't try to bring sales into IT Luke, you horrible horrible person 😂

*Cries in procurement red tape

 

[boultonn]

MSP's are also not a bad shout (if it's not a s**t one)

Ahh the old MSP paradox...
In all seriousness, I got a grad role doing Cyber at an MSP and, sure it had it's faults, but it was one of the few places that actually had a cyber grad scheme so gotta take what you can get. (But I did leave immediately after the scheme)

 

[andybond]

IT is a fickle business.

It tends to go round in circles of evolution every 30 to 40 years. Things like mainframes are the yesterday’s cloud of today.


30 years ago you could also be fairly skilled in all IT elements from infrastructure , to domains to backups.

These days it’s less likely as each zone of the technology is larger and more in depth than 30 years back, however the concepts are similar.

I loathe some of today’s support companies where they work in a silo’d environment. They know ( apparently ) all about SQL, but if you ask about CPU parallelism on a SQL server - it is invariably that’s not my area, and hands over to wintel who haven’t a clue as it’s SQL.

What I am waffling on about is try and specialise in something that

1) you enjoy
2) has a future
3) you can read around your subject and become more than a single SME

No point in going to work if you hate it , are programming Fortran and only Fortran for example.

I place low importance on qualifications. Companies want to know you can do the walk , rather than the talk. Experience over paper based theoretical fabrikam based exams wins every time

I have worked both as a perm , and contractor in IT for a chunk of my life.

Do IT because you want to , not because you need to.

 

[botfch]

Don't underestimate this, I might not be the most technically gifted person in a room but for some reason I can speak to people 'properly', which helps no end and is a vaulable skill.

I only have experience as a client but this 100%.

There is one decent guy on our IT support team if he’s not around I’ll just wait until he gets back. The rest are completely useless “comic book guy” types, constantly f**k stuff up and if you put any pressure on them at all, they go off sick.

 

[Mr Squashie]

I only have experience as a client but this 100%.

There is one decent guy on our IT support team if he’s not around I’ll just wait until he gets back. The rest are completely useless “comic book guy” types, constantly f**k stuff up and if you put any pressure on them at all, they go off sick.

I'd love to be the first guy. I always like being the person people go to for help/answers, it's never been something I've aimed for but it always ends up happening.

 

[KitsonRis]

My first job after uni was science research (x ray radiography in hydrodynamic experiments so proper nerd stuff) and I did some basic coding for computational models and analysis. I swapped to do data science a few years later and that role was a bit of a waste as the closest I came to data science at that job was my email signature. I ended up doing front end dev work with zero experience in React or Typescript. When they wouldn’t change me to a software engineer role I quit and I’m now a software engineer.

The only formal training I’ve had is a few computing modules at uni (I studied physics, my masters was in nuclear engineering so learnt Fortran which is utter useless in the modern world) and have used common sense, google, stack overflow and examples to learn what I know. Been in this role for nearly 4 years and now a senior engineer/tech lead that is responsible for designing stuff and delivering features and all that. So you don’t need formal training but you need to know what you are doing. I would say I’m a Java dev but can do a lot more, like React, python to some infrastructure things too. Some people I work with won’t touch front end work but my suggestion would be get stuck in to anything.
I also do support roles making sure the operational system is up and running which is not the most fun thing but it’s only two days of on call every few weeks.

Most of my working day is shouting “f**k off” at my computer as what I’m trying won’t work for absolutely no reason or someone else replicates what you are failing to do and chips in “works on my machine”…well screw you it’s not working on mine. Or things stop working for no reason and just have to blame “network” or the hamsters have not been fed yet. It’s a good job and I do enjoy it.

 

[Donny_Dog]

Support.
Once you've done the mandated few months, you can aim at whichever discipline/area you enjoyed or where good at.

10000000% I would not employ anyone in I.T who had just done a course/training etc. In IT engineering that is.

If it's Dev and coding and s**t, then no idea. Those folk are a different breed and usually stink. + Have no clue about I.T.

 

[hopgop1]

Haven't read the whole thread, but I went into an IT helpdesk role straight out of sixth form, did that for just under 2 years and have been slowly moving up since, now in an infrastructure role which I quite enjoy. I'd try and get in somewhere with in-house IT rather than an MSP who provide support out, everyone I've spoken to says jobs at those types of places are soul destroying and not all that easy to move upwards, but I'm sure that depends on the company.
It was very easy for me to move upward from a first line support role, you won't be competing with much quality and all you've got to do is give half a s**t and learn as much as you can, pick up some extra skills from the more technical guys and make their lives easier, you'll quickly be recognised.
Any questions let me know.

Edit: Benefit of a helpdesk role also is that it's so general you'll get a feel for what area you're more interested in, I'd say a good 20% of our technical IT staff started on our help desk and probably 60%+ started in some form of 1st line role at another company.

 

[charltjr]

A support role can definitely give you a grounding in whatever you want to do.

I started off as wanting to be a developer, did a straight computer science degree, did an industrial placement at IBM (back when that name actually meant something 😂) but once I finished all of my training, I decided that I really got a kick out of the solving problems and doing small bits of project work – so support then.

I’ve honestly never looked back. I’ve never done what you would call a helpdesk role as such, it’s always been a very deep dive and in-depth type of support role even to the point of writing small tool sets or bug fixing.

I’m currently in one of those jobs that’s really hard to describe in a job description but I’m now a technical architect with a really wide roving brief to deal with whatever s**t is hitting the fan that particular month.

In the right company, by which I mean a company that actually is flexible and gives you a chance to do what you’re really good at, you can really build your own niche. The big corporates are all very well and give a lot of security in some senses, but on the flipside, there’s always the risk of being offshore or outsourced, depending on what the management fan of the month is.

I would absolutely never consider one of the big services shops that just acts as contract resources for other companies. My experiences of interacting with them are almost always highly negative. They tend to drop in a couple of very good resources right at the very beginning, and then once they’ve vanished, you’re left with absolute dross dealing with the day to day, I just would never want to be part of that.

 

[andybond]

Haven't read the whole thread, but I went into an IT helpdesk role

Can see why you went into help desk.

 

[.Joe]

From experience, depending on the company size, some look for qualification purely to fill quotas for supplier discounts to get people in the door will little to no experience, Help-desk/First-line support experience can be drawn on from other customer facing roles (restaurant FOH/sales assistant) and trained on the job.
Most if not everyone i know in IT suffers from some form of imposter syndrome, but how you act on it can throw you leaps and bounds into the field.
Having an mindset of i don't know but i will find a way to sort it (Google-fu is a lifesaver)
Once you have 6-12 months of experience in the field you can really open doors to other opportunities.
Getting set up with a home lab of sorts can really get some knowledge built quickly.
Learning the basics of Hypervisors, OS management and troubleshooting common issues, domain management are just a few to name.

 

[hopgop1]

Can see why you went into help desk.

Not wrong, don't bother reading the ticket, send email asking for generic pointless info, don't troubleshoot and pass to someone else. Joking of course.

 

[Cookie]

Another person who has ended up in SaaS sales checking in

I would also recommend a low level support job and a focus on soft skills

I got my current job with zero sales experience and no product or specific industry experience for the role because I can talk to people and I'm not a complete mook

 

[-Jamie-]

Interesting thread, I've been in hospitality/kitchens since I left school so it's all I've known for the last 17 years or so. Want out though so this thread has given some ideas