Your rights with a Trader?

[Adam D]

Well if you look at http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?621467-Gear-box-gone-(&p=8384851#post8384851 you will see why i am posting this thread.

I am just abit worried what the trader will offer, I have looked on the direct gov website and it says the dealer is responsible for problems like this(gear box possibly dead) i've only had the car around three weeks and everything else has been spot on with it. I am hoping he offers to pay for the repair but even then how do i go about sorting it, the dealer i got it from is miles away from me so its not asif i can go down there to sort it out.

Could he try and get out of it all maybe?

Thanks.

 

[Revels]

Not really sure why you need two threads.

Have you spoken to the trader?

 

[172Ben]

2 threads???

Have you rang the guy?

Edit - Dan, lol

 

[Adam D]

I just thought it would be easier as its two separate questions really.

I'm going to ring the trader later just wanted to know anything i need to mention or say if he tries to get out of it, i'm no good with confrontation haha

 

[The Fatty]

umm its 2 threads because one is a question about the gearbox itself (and thus in the correct location) and one is a question about trader obligations. The fact that they are linked by the gearbox dosnt really impact on this thread imo.

Im not sure the trader will have any obligations to repair the car unless it was sold with some sort of warrenty. As it is the gearbox it question, they could also just say you dont know how to change gear properly and thus it has broken. Obviously most traders will fight to the end before paying out for anything as they themselves have to make money, and repairing you car from the business reserves is not going to help them at all. I would ring them up, explain the situation to them and see what they say regarding a free repair. If they are really nice, they might agree. If not, then you can tell them you have to go do some research and you will call them back later. Only at this point would I be bothering to waste time looking up the legal obligations of a trader...

 

[alanc1000]

did the car come with any form of warranty (i.e an actual one where you get the third party warranty details / leaflet)? If so, then the dealer may be a bit more relaxed about it ifs its not a wear and tear item (i.e the box not the clutch).

If they have a garage facility to check the car over, then i am sure they'll be happy to take a look at the car, just act calm at first and assume they will fix it. it will soon become apparant to them if there really is a problem once they've had a look / driven it.

Be prepared to have to put your foot down hard though and get it checked straight away before 28 days, which is when i think you can reject a car. Also be prepared to fork out for an independent check if they say they wont help (this is what i had to do).

 

[The Fatty]

im not sure you wold be able to reject the car if its not in the same condition as when collected? :S

 

[Adam D]

Thanks for the replies. He specifically mentioned that there would be a 28 day warranty covering engine and gear box (i am sure it says that but its at home and well.. i cant get there yet!) He's more of just a trader with a forecourt and a load of cars, he owns a petrol station too. I'll do some more research and give him a call in the morning as they are closed now. I know i could have rang the guy earlier but i wanted to get as much info as possible rather than ring up without knowing much.

 

[alanc1000]

im not sure you wold be able to reject the car if its not in the same condition as when collected? :S

I'm not sure what you mean, has the OP modified the car?

If there is a fault in the car, you can reject it after a period of time even if the fault was not present at the time you bought it, i did this 6 months ago and got a £30k refund from an independent dealer when the engine went tits up. You just have to be prepared to fight all the way. The dealer was genuinly unaware of the problem when he sold me my car IMO.

OP - is the car driveable? If so i'd take it to him rather than ring him up, just turn up unannounced.

 

[The Fatty]

I'm not sure what you mean, has the OP modified the car?

No I dont htink so, I was just refering to the broken gearbox. What I was meaning was that they may pin it on poor driving and not a direct fault of the car (ie. he didnt use the clutch to change gear); this would not come under the 28 return thingy (and im not sure its even usable on second hand cars is it? Im guessing your £30K car was a new one?).

 

[alanc1000]

No I dont htink so, I was just refering to the broken gearbox. What I was meaning was that they may pin it on poor driving and not a direct fault of the car (ie. he didnt use the clutch to change gear); this would not come under the 28 return thingy (and im not sure its even usable on second hand cars is it? Im guessing your £30K car was a new one?).

No mine was a 2 year old used car with 6k miles on the clock. It was some clause in the sale of goods act (not fit for purpose and i used some other one), however at first they were not going to do anything, then they offered a new engine or full refund when i had the car independently inspected (borescope with internal pics and a written report). I also got the manufacturer to confirm the fault, and at this point the independent dealer refunded it and sorted it directly with the manufacturer to go halves on the repair (it was just out of manufactureres warranty). Sometimes you have to go OTT to get what you want, if i hadnt have paid for an indpendent check, there would be no way i would have got a refund!

Obviously with an older car, this is going to be a lot harder to achieve, so no idea how this will pan out for the OP.

 

[Steven103]

OP - is the car driveable? If so i'd take it to him rather than ring him up, just turn up unannounced.

It'd be polite to call first & maybe he'd be more inclined to help as he could make sure a mechanic is available at the time you will turn up etc

On the other hand if you waltz into a forecourt with a completely f***** car on the back ofa trailor that is only 2 weeks old on a busy saturday morning you might get a lot more attention and be ushered into a back office to discuss asap before the kaffufle puts other customers off. On the other hand it might p*** him right off at you ruining 4 potential sales and do his utmost to be unhelpful.

IIRC "sold as seen" does not exist anymore. There is no such thing when buying from a trader & as it is part of some trading standards rules it is admissible in court.

 

[alanc1000]

It'd be polite to call first & maybe he'd be more inclined to help as he could make sure a mechanic is available at the time you will turn up etc

On the other hand if you waltz into a forecourt with a completely f***** car on the back ofa trailor that is only 2 weeks old on a busy saturday morning you might get a lot more attention and be ushered into a back office to discuss asap before the kaffufle puts other customers off. On the other hand it might p*** him right off at you ruining 4 potential sales and do his utmost to be unhelpful.

IIRC "sold as seen" does not exist anymore. There is no such thing when buying from a trader & as it is part of some trading standards rules it is admissible in court.

When i went back for mine, i turned up (and there were other customers around) and i waited until he was free rather than embarass him which would have been out of order, especially as you have to assume the dealers dont realise there is something up with the car. But once i was there, yes, he definitely did want me out of the way of other customers and took me out the back to just deal with it. The day i went to hand the car and keys back, the lady who was collecting my old car which i PXed with the dealer was there picking my old car up! I gave her a bit of a talk about how well it had been looked after etc, it scored me a few brownie points with the dealer i think!

 

[Bluebeard]

Im not sure the trader will have any obligations to repair the car unless it was sold with some sort of warrenty. As it is the gearbox it question, they could also just say you dont know how to change gear properly and thus it has broken....

im not sure you wold be able to reject the car if its not in the same condition as when collected? :S

I don't mean this to sound rude, (You seem like a nice guy tbh) but you really shouldn't be giving out advice on a subject that you know nothing about.

Back OT...

First of all, ring the dealer. They are car dealers not wild tigers that want to rip you limb from limb. Explain whats broken on the car and see what they say.

Every car bought from a dealer must be fit for purpose for a period of 6 months. This is all relative. So if you bought a car for £150 and it blew up after 5 months, don't expect your money back. But in the same scenario where someone has bought a car for the market value (or there abouts) the car must be fit for its purpose. Ie not s**t its gearbox out after 30 days.

The dealer has a legal obligation to either repair your car,
offer a financial contribution (in this case the whole lot, its only 30 days!)
or offer either refund for the vehicle (rejection of the car)
or offer a suitable replacement (A car that is exactly the same)

This is what trading standards say, not my opinion.

For more info/help Contact Consumer direct (google them) they are brilliant.

 

[Scrooge]

Maybe it's just me but I bought an Alfa for the gf all was good proper happy with the car and everything. 6 weeks down the line the gearbox was making a noise, did I complain? Like f**k did I, s**t happens you've bought a second hand car, they break so fix it.

 

[Bluebeard]

Maybe it's just me but I bought an Alfa for the gf all was good proper happy with the car and everything. 6 weeks down the line the gearbox was making a noise, did I complain? Like f**k did I, s**t happens you've bought a second hand car, they break so fix it.

Sadly mate, people like us are in the minority.

I never complain/return anything really. I just can't be bothered. Just fix it and move on with your life! lol.

 

[Scrooge]

Exactly can't be dealing with the hassle, sadly the world is full of ofcom calling c***s.

 

[Bluebeard]

FLOL!!

 

[The Fatty]

I think im am looking at it from a different angle; im relating it to the mass of people who had trouble getting there gearbox replaced in the 197 by Renault themselves. I thought I read somewhere that a lot of people said they got told it was becasue of there driving style and didnt get the box replaced under warrenty without a massive fuss. I am assuming a dealer would be able to pull at the same strings and thus would make it even harder to fight? This is the first I have heard about the 6 months fit for purpose clause and am now wondering why dealers give out seperate warrenty packages with the car? Does this 6 month clause cover to the save level as a warrenty? (thats more for my general knowledge) :S

 

[fleck]

We get away with giving the in-house "standard 3 month warranty" and also register the customer with an outside company who then ring the customer to offer them an extended aftermarket warranty.

Just a shame the general public usually expect everything for nothing.

 

[Bluebeard]

I think im am looking at it from a different angle; im relating it to the mass of people who had trouble getting there gearbox replaced in the 197 by Renault themselves. I thought I read somewhere that a lot of people said they got told it was becasue of there driving style and didnt get the box replaced under warrenty without a massive fuss. I am assuming a dealer would be able to pull at the same strings and thus would make it even harder to fight? This is the first I have heard about the 6 months fit for purpose clause and am now wondering why dealers give out seperate warrenty packages with the car? Does this 6 month clause cover to the save level as a warrenty? (thats more for my general knowledge) :S

Read up on it on the direct.gov site. There's loads of info on there.

We get away with giving the in-house "standard 3 month warranty" and also register the customer with an outside company who then ring the customer to offer them an extended aftermarket warranty.

Just a shame the general public usually expect everything for nothing.

We do the same because most people accept that a used car will break at some point. Sadly there are the people that seem to expect better service from my garage (That sells cars primarily under £4000) than they do from a Bentley dealer. Do bentley customers ring the salesman at 9pm at night because their sunroof is juddering when its closing??

Polish customers are the best. Turn up, spend an hour inspecting it, bid you fair in regards to the faults (if any) they find, pay and leave never to be seen again. Love them.

 

[fleck]

lol theyre our favourites too, cant beat a good polski. Pay cash and disappear.

Had a woman call from Lincoln (30 miles away) to complain that her side light bulb had gone, i politely told her to pop in and she actually did!

 

[Bazz]

Maybe it's just me but I bought an Alfa for the gf all was good proper happy with the car and everything. 6 weeks down the line the gearbox was making a noise, did I complain? Like f**k did I, s**t happens you've bought a second hand car, they break so fix it.

Sales of goods act is there for a reason, your own fault if you want to waste your money.



Used cars - consumer rights


(for England, Wales and Northern Ireland)
Enter your postcode in the field at the bottom of this page to see if your local authority trading standards department has the full leaflet version available on its website.
When you buy goods from a trader, you enter into a legally binding contract governed by the Sale of Goods Act 1979, as amended by the Sale and Supply of Goods Act 1994 and the Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002. If you buy a used car from a trader it must be of satisfactory quality, fit for the purpose, and as described. Obviously a very old car with a high mileage will not be as good as a newer car with a low mileage, but it should still be fit for use on the road, in a condition which reflects its age and price, and reliable.
Traders cannot take away consumers rights by using terms such as ‘sold as seen’. Your legal rights are reduced if you buy a car from a private seller or an auction. If you buy a used car via the internet, you may have additional rights under the Distance Selling Regulations.
If you have a problem with a used car, you have a short time after buying it to reject the car. If the fault was present when you bought the car, you do have other remedies such as repair or replacement. It is recommended you always follow up complaints with the details in writing, and keep copies of all correspondence. As a last resort, you may need to consider taking court action. Remember, used cars may have some faults, but they should not be excessive. Fair wear and tear is not considered to be a fault.


Link - http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/advice/problemswithvehicles-sum6.cfm

 

[Scrooge]

Your point? The Alfa was fine when I bought it, how can I go back to a trader and get them to pay out for a problem which wasn't there when I bought the car.

 

[Bazz]

Your point? The Alfa was fine when I bought it, how can I go back to a trader and get them to pay out for a problem which wasn't there when I bought the car.

It was obviously ready to go, therefore not fit for purpose, simple.

 

[Scrooge]

Im sorry but thats b****cks, a leyshaft bearing could go anytime. I could have been kicking f**k out of the gearbox.

 

[Bazz]

It's pointless talking to you tbh, clearly a tool.

 

[Scrooge]

Yes clearly. Prove to me at the time of sale the car wasn't fit for use? You can't.

You flannel.

 

[Bazz]

That's the whole point of the act, you don't have to prove it wasn't fit for purpose. What is needed though is for the car to last a reasonable amount of time which clearly the OP's and yours didn't. They are the facts.

 

[Scrooge]

You clearly don't understand what i'm saying.

 

[MikeoftheQuays]

Im sorry but thats b****cks, a leyshaft bearing could go anytime. I could have been kicking f**k out of the gearbox.

In that case surely it'd be up to them to prove you've been misusing it?

"Fit for purpose" generally means using it for a reasonable length of time without it breaking.

 

[PP200t]

I've taken cars back to dealers/traders with faults. No problems for me and I don't feel like a whining c#nt. the act is there for this very purpose, as said by bazz. Everyone is different but in the op's case I'd be calling the trader immediately!!

 

[Scrooge]

I think 6 weeks is more than enough, no noise one day then whining the next.

 

[MikeoftheQuays]

Hmm 6 weeks would be pushing it I guess. Depends on how much you spent/mileage etc etc.

£200 shitter then you've got no chance. £30k Porsche then yeah, I'd be straight back in there.

 

[bennno2005]

Your point? The Alfa was fine when I bought it, how can I go back to a trader and get them to pay out for a problem which wasn't there when I bought the car.

What's the point in buying from a Trader then?

 

[Adam D]

I know some of you would rather just pay it yourself and fair enough after a few month i could probably accept that but after 3 weeks i don't think is good enough and i don't really have the money for it replacing which could be £500+ after only 3 weeks.

I rang the trader up and he said if i could take it to a garage and find out what is up with it. Which i did. The garage have said it is the gearbox and it could be either the bearings or a new box is needed they don't know till they take it out which would be a cost in itself. I rang back the trader who said okay he needs the car back to sort it out which i think is fair enough and luckily i am not too far away but it needs to be recovered there and can't be towed. I'd like to think everything is legitimate this way with him coming to pick the car up and then sort it out except its just me stuck without a car for a little while.

Right now its in the garage forecourt and the trader cant get anyone out until tomorrow which is quite annoying as its unfair on the garage now. I've told the garage he's coming to pick it up tonight so i'm going to have to attempt to move it myself to somewhere else where it can be parked. Stupid double yellows and bus lanes right in the middle of Manchester haha.

Cheers.

 

[The Fatty]

lol the argument between Scrooge and Bazz reflects exactly the angle I was originally talking about that a garage might take. lol.

Glad the garage is looking to sort it for you. I wouldnt worry about the garage to much, they know when looking at these warrenty type things that they might not get the work. If you feel they have given you a good service, slip them £10 for a drink and they will be more than happy im sure.

 

[SBV116]

Maybe it's just me but I bought an Alfa for the gf all was good proper happy with the car and everything. 6 weeks down the line the gearbox was making a noise, did I complain? Like f**k did I, s**t happens you've bought a second hand car, they break so fix it.

I bought a VTs, gearbox was whining within the month......just fit a new one. wasn't over happy tbh but oh well!!!

 

[Adam D]

Gave the guy at the garage a tenner for a drink and insisted he took it he was great. I really wanted them to do the work but never mind. The guy is getting it recovered tonight, he said it was going to cost him £60 and i needed to pay £40 towards it. I just told him i didn't have any money haha.

My main worry is now...

The garage it is at now said it seems not at all like it is the clutch and it is the gear box that is wrong.

The trader explained to me that if its the gear box that is gone he will sort it, if it is the clutch that is gone i will have to pay for it.

The trader put another guy on the phone and i explained the problem and he said it sounds like the clutch and was making a point of it.

Whats the stop the guy writing out a receipt for the clutch and saying i need to pay for it when it was infact the gear box? I know it sounds dodgy but its all i can think of.

 

[Bluebeard]

Gave the guy at the garage a tenner for a drink and insisted he took it he was great. I really wanted them to do the work but never mind. The guy is getting it recovered tonight, he said it was going to cost him £60 and i needed to pay £40 towards it. I just told him i didn't have any money haha.

My main worry is now...

The garage it is at now said it seems not at all like it is the clutch and it is the gear box that is wrong.

The trader explained to me that if its the gear box that is gone he will sort it, if it is the clutch that is gone i will have to pay for it.

The trader put another guy on the phone and i explained the problem and he said it sounds like the clutch and was making a point of it.

Whats the stop the guy writing out a receipt for the clutch and saying i need to pay for it when it was infact the gear box? I know it sounds dodgy but its all i can think of.

Get a sharp object and scribe a tiny line on the gearbox, somewhere only you will know where it is.

If they replace the gearbox for another used item (They won't refurb it or fit new, thats too much £££) then the mark will be gone. If they then turn round and tell you its a clutch, you need to pay £xxx then you can tell them to do one.