172 inlet manifold PTFE gasket

[hill_power_clio]

mattjk - that part number doesn't exist mate....

Spoke to renault and they said it should be a straight 10 digit number?

Can you check?

Don't they usually start with 77?

Cheers

 

[BenR]

7700114203 upper and 7700109906 lower

 

[BenR]

I thought the metal temp was far easier to measure Ben, as it stays more constant for longer, as opposed to inlet temp which changes so quickly, and if any constant values were to be obtained for the actual intake air (be it on dyno or whatever), the change would ultimately be down to the contact temp of the manifold.

I can appreciate its easier, but the ECU uses air temp, not surface temp to calculate. The contact between air/manifold will change with rpm and airspeed, thus air temp will vary accordingly.

 

[Dash]

So you are not a big fan of PTFE gaskets then Ben?

 

[mattjk]

mattjk - that part number doesn't exist mate....

Spoke to renault and they said it should be a straight 10 digit number?

Can you check?

Don't they usually start with 77?

Cheers

Sorry pal that was what it said on the gasket. My apoligies

 

[BenR]

So you are not a big fan of PTFE gaskets then Ben?

Not in this instance.

They have their uses in standoff manifolds mostly, but on the whole, i dont like the material that much.

 

[Mark One]

any word on delivered pricing yet?

Hi mate...

Can get the manifold gaskets in 1.5mm out to you now but we are going to trial run the additional plenum to manifold gasket as well so was going to wait for that first and offer them at a discounted bulk buy sort of thing.

1.5mm manifold gasket alone will probably only be about £22-23 delivered (1st class recorded delivery). I would hope as a set (i.e. 1.5mm manifold and 1mm plenum to manifold) we could get out for £40.

Not even going to argue about the usefulness of the gaskets - people can make their own opinion of it now. Just to say a lot of people have enquired and bought these from me for other cars (mainly GTIR, Valver/Willy) with high feedback, good results and people who have removed and refitted have never found anything untoward.

Following Ben R's comments - you should use a sealed cold air feed for good results. Use these in conjunction - that way every little helps. Fit water injection if you are a more competent mechanic and have a bigger bank balance.

It is important to take onboard everyones comments and make the decision yourself to buy - I don't promise results I am just going by what people relay back and think - so far so good! :approve:

Well said.
I may be interested in the full set and am in no hurry so ill wait

 

[BenR]

Use in a standoff design like the honda's, F7's and GTiR's is more useful.

Dont forget to make PTFE washers under the plenum aswell for the rear mount then.

 

[hill_power_clio]

7700114203 upper and 7700109906 lower

sorry mate? which one of these is the gasket from manifold to plenum?

Also "Dont forget to make PTFE washers under the plenum aswell for the rear mount then."

Can you elaborate on this? Sounds interesting and I'm willing to do it but not owning a 172 I can't depict what you mean!

Agreed - biggest results are seen in stand-off designs. Working on clio v6s one at the moment - how many bloody gaskets are there on the inlet (phs2)!

oo and thanks for part numbers and input mate - it is most appreciated.

 

[BenR]

upper is plenum, lower is manifold/head.

The plenum bolts to the top of the cylinder head.

 

[hill_power_clio]

Thanks!

Are there metal washers std or are you suggesting we use a PTFE washer as an addition to help reduce heat transfer further?

 

[ben_p]

washers?

 

[hill_power_clio]

As above Ben has suggested we could use a washer on the plenum mount to further reduce heat transfer - good idea.

 

[Mark One]

nifty

 

[hill_power_clio]

Manifold to plenum gasket ordered - being collected on Friday - should be drawn up for next week, trial fitted asap when we get one cut (by Dan 172 - thanks), he will probably post results and then all will be available....

washers to be confirmed as above.

 

[Dan172+]

Manifold to plenum gasket ordered - being collected on Friday - should be drawn up for next week, trial fitted asap when we get one cut (by Dan 172 - thanks), he will probably post results and then all will be available....

washers to be confirmed as above.

Before its cut, it should be fitted (crushed) to get the correct measurements mate.

 

[hill_power_clio]

I've got a spare 172 inlet manifold I think in my mates shed so ill bolt it down to my bench to space it out a bit - either that or just had .5mm to port holes.

Whats your opinion on the washers mate? (as above)

 

[mattjk]

Washers seem a pretty pointless thing to me. I mean its only a really small contact point, not much heat will be transferred from here, I'm VERY suprised Ben suggested it actually.

 

[hill_power_clio]

Well if the washers will help I doubt it would be much of an issue to make them - end of the day the scrap material for the middle of the port cuttings could be used for something!

If anyone can get me a washer the correct size and thickness I will happily copy if it will help.

But if it is indeed pointless then it is a waste of time drawing it up, bagging them up and what have ya!

I suppose if we are getting this picky then we would be changing bolts to stainless and all sorts!

Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

 

[BenR]

I suggested it because if your going to do the gaskets because of those contact points, then you might as well do the rest of the contact points. There are no washers as std, but you will need to make some to level up the height of the manifold aswell.

Customers will expect it because every little helps

 

[mattjk]

I didnt mean it in a horrible way, but there is a limit to how small it gets before it gets silly.

 

[BenR]

i know, i'm just ribbing you bud lol

 

[hill_power_clio]

Like I say I'll happily make the washers but will need somebody to advise best outer dia, suitable inner dia, and best thickness. If it will help then we will do it - if its just f**kin about for the sake of it then no we wont. It will probably mean a charge of an extra quid or so for the messing about, but not a problem to do and hardly any expense.

 

[Mark One]

If I was producing myself, then it'd be a "why not"
Commercially you have to ask if it's viable for the gain

 

[hill_power_clio]

Well it would only be small cost to make the washers - literally a tiny bit of extra CAD drawing, bit more lazer time, bit of material cost and thats it really from my point of view... next to nothing really.

Request a volunteer to make a suitable washer and send to us for make up or suggest a size which we can make for trial... I don't own a 172 otherwise would have a crack myself!

Its nearly the weekend now boys you need something to do!

 

[BenR]

Come off it, you dont need someone to make a test washer, just make one that will fit the m6 bolts used on the manifolds.

So ID of 6.5mm for clearance and OD of what, say 10-11mm, its just to separate the manifold from touching the head.

But then you'll have to make sure the breather baffle seal under the plenum still seals with the raised plenum height

 

[hill_power_clio]

... I don't own a 172 otherwise would have a crack myself!

Its nearly the weekend now boys you need something to do!

Thats why I need to know - didn't even know what bolts were used!

Someone may have just had one which was right size but couldn't measure or whatever.

NP making washers to that size - would 1.5mm thickness be ok to not cause any other issues. If its going to affect breather seals and stuff then we won't bother.

 

[caister]

The PH1 will need an oil breather gasket for the back as well.

 

[hill_power_clio]

:headno:

Suggest we just stick with the mani to head and plenum to mani gaskets then... we can make these extra gaskets but it will get confusing to some people, plus the extra costs for you guys wont reap the same rewards as the two main gaskets.

Unless of course people do think it will make significant difference then of course np we will do it - just means it will cost more for a set.

 

[hill_power_clio]

Sample gasket has been cut and is being sent to Dan172+ for fitting approval, thickness measurements etc. Following this we will cut a final PTFE for him to test temps with and then we will know whether the set or just manifold gasket is most beneficial for the cost.

not be long now! in the mean time if anyone just wants a manifold gasket then they are available - just drop me PM

 

[AmDaMan]

what was the result?

 

[hill_power_clio]

Hi - sorry for the delay have been away...

Dan172 last I heard was selling his car so we are looking for someone to test fit the plenum to manifold PTFE gasket for temp reductions...

Dan was ideal to do this as he had already recorded the mani to head gasket temps so to keep things more accurate it would have been nice to use same person, same equipment etc.

The thickness for mani to head is 1.5mm and mani to plenum is 1mm. We can cut these at any time now so its up to people if they want to the extra gasket testing?

Otherwise we can cut the gaskets now.

 

[hill_power_clio]

anyone?!

 

[hill_power_clio]

Will anybody be willing to trial fit the plenum to manifold gasket? I know it fits, its just we haven't been able to see temp reduction gains - would be nice to see overall gain of using both to be honest...

Anybody out there willing to trial fit?

 

[AmDaMan]

i would but how much is it going to cost me? I have an RSTuner so I could get temp differences..

 

[hill_power_clio]

You have PM

 

[AmDaMan]

These will be fitted on the next warm weekend.. hopefully this weekend. I will gather inlet temps before and after with the RSTuner.

The gaskets are well made too.

 

[mini-valver]

I still want a K4M one, lol

 

[Mase]

Wow..did that take a long time to read! I have been thinking of this for a while. Espec in Aust with our high ambient temps as murcod pointed out 100 posts back!

I too am a RSTuner user and fan and am very interested in the results. I have been studying my air temps for sometime like the nerd I am.

Keep me posted. If they work and don't deform then there's bound to be a market in Aust.

 

[hill_power_clio]

AmDaMan - glad you are happy with quality - drop me a PM with your results - only just got back from hols so apologies for delay in replying!

Mase - got your email mate; will be in touch.

mini-valver - source a OE gasket and then drop me a PM - sure we can knock one up for you somehow - if its just a one-off it could be a bit more expensive, usually if theres a buy of say x5 or more it makes things easier financially with regards to development, etc.

CHEERS ALL