Removing and refitting F4R head + valves

[Matteh]

the bolt just 'drops' into the hole (with the spring on it)?

i've got the cylindrical thing that drops into that hole thats visible from the top with the cam cover on (phaser) - it's not meant to be part of that is it?

I'll need atleast 1 'set' of collets as the ones for the valve i removed were missing!

cheers for the help!

 

[Matteh]

also, do i need any new seals for the camshafts for when i refit those?

and the cam cover gasket...

By a complete headset for £90, it'll probably work out cheaper than all the parts bit by bit.

I've probably got loads of spare retainers and springs.

I've just fitted all new manifold and inlet gaskets already, so don't really need to buy new ones do i? (again, all been on the car for a mile or 2)

 

[BenR]

I'm sure i can rustle up a set of collets, a spring and retainer.

That bolt and spring certainly does not drop into the hole lol, and i cant say if its part of the vvt solenoid as i've never taken it apart, but i very much doubt it is.

 

[Matteh]

the solenoid seemed to be intact when i remove it, I'll go grab some pics of it for you lovely people to peruse...

 

[Matteh]

looks fine to me :S unless I've got completely the wrong part!

I'm still learning with these engines

 

[BenR]

looks fine to me as well.

 

[Matteh]

So i've just got a random bolt

wonder if it could've been dropped in the oil filler cap at all (intentionally or not)

 

[BenR]

might be what caused the spring to fail.

 

[ditz]

i really couldnt remember (or even think of) that bolt and spring that you are talking about.

stripped one down today and can confirm this.

love to know how its found its way in there though

 

[Matteh]

bet it was dropped in.... wonder who by - none of the renault staff could identify it :S


anyways.. i got a new inlet valve today (from a motorfactors, renault wanted to sell me 8 @ £117) and the spring/collet/retainer/seal will be in tomorrow

gonna go get a proper set of spring compressors tomorrow too that will allow me to fit the valves (mine doesnt do recessed ones, must be for SOHC?)

then I'll get a torque wrench and speak nicely to someone to let me borrow their timing tool

...with a bit of luck it'll be running

 

[BenR]

Timing tools.

You'll need the pulley locking tool, the cam locking tool, the crank locking tool, a torque wrench and an angle torque gauge and something to rotate the assembly whilst engine is locked and belt is tensioned.

 

[Matteh]

i'll purchase a torque wrench and angle gauge and hopefully thieve the timing bits off someone for a few days

what do you mean by 'something to rotate the assembly whilst engine is locked and belt is tensioned'?

 

[Matteh]

just to add.. do i need to do anything to this valve before i fit it?

 

[Jay Payne]

ive got all the tools you will need for the timing matt, including pulley locking tool. but im going on holiday tomorrow for a week

 

[ditz]

just to add.. do i need to do anything to this valve before i fit it?

yes lap it in, you'll want some valve grinding paste and a lapping stick


dont bother using coarse i just use fine

 

[ditz]

and as for timing, you have to lock the cams and crank, then rotate the belt on its pulleys to distribute the tension

 

[Matteh]

I saw the valve grinding 'kit' thing in halfords, will pick that up too

what's the deal with grinding them? do i just make it smooth or something?

how do you rotate the belt on its pulleys (tensioner + idler?) - surely it will be stuck on the cam pulleys and crank pulley?

 

[BenR]

before you lock the cam pulleys and crank pulley, you tension then spin.

I made a special tool up.

 

[ditz]

no, because you leave the bolts loose (just finger tightened so they turn but dont deflect.
then the whole lot spins on there tapers as they arent keyed


and yeah you just want a nice dull (but uniform) dull line on the valve seat (no need to keep checking valve as you know thats ok)

 

[Matteh]

this is confusing :dead:

 

[Matteh]

got my bits from renault and the new valve spring compressor

all is well, except they gave me 1 single collet... so now i've gotta go back on tuesday ffs

are the cams meant to come away from the cam cover? as mine seem to be stuck on by the pulleys and i dont want to force anything... makes putting them back onto the head quite tricky :S

 

[ben_p]

got my bits from renault and the new valve spring compressor

all is well, except they gave me 1 single collet... so now i've gotta go back on tuesday ffs

are the cams meant to come away from the cam cover? as mine seem to be stuck on by the pulleys and i dont want to force anything... makes putting them back onto the head quite tricky :S

you should of removed the pullys before taking the cover off,

you need to remove the pullys to remove the cover now, which wont be easy, soft jaw vice ? lol

 

[Matteh]

damn...

thought that might be the case

i'll try in a vice padded with a bit of wood?

 

[ben_p]

worth a punt LOL, there on tight mind! dont go wild!

 

[ditz]

need an airgun and a mate really to get them off like that
just make sure your the one with the gun as holding the cam bloody hurts your hands

 

[Matteh]

feck

 

[ditz]

had a thought, have you got an old cambelt?
wrap the belt round the pulley, and put the two ends that come off either side of the pulley in the vice

that way all thats gripping the pulley is the belt and all you risk damaging is the belt

 

[Matteh]

good plan!

p.s. was it you that offered to loan me the timing tools?

 

[ditz]

yep, but i've got one in bits atm.
i'll let you know when they are free

 

[Matteh]

ive checked and lapped all the valves now and have replaced the broken parts

couple more questions ...

Do i just put the little 'rocker' type things on the valves or do i need to do anything like check clearances or adjust anything?

I take it theres no gasket for the cam cover, should i just use a gasket paste?

what's a good way to remove bits of old gasket from the head as I'd like it to look shiney and new but don't want to scratch anything

also, whats the torque settings for the headbolts

cheers!

 

[mattjk]

I think your meant to use some fine wet and dry to get the mating surfaces perfect before sealing them together! Just make sure you get all the dust out of them.

As for the cam cover people just use that red paste I'm not sure what its called though but there is no gasket!

 

[Matteh]

wet and dry the head?

 

[Matteh]

few more:

I take it the crank pulley needs to be removed/loosened to time the engine up? - this needs to be done with the crank locked at tdc? (i.e. use the locking pin to hold it in place to allow me to undo the 18mm nut)

Do I need to do anything to piston 2 (short of replacing it)

 

[mattjk]

I was pretty sure you had too lol

Preparing the surface for reassembly is vitally important .... get yourself a good sanding block and some 600 and 1200 wet and dry .. carefully and evenly block off the whole head with 600 whilst applying plenty of light engine oil or wd40 for lubrication .. this will remove any final traces of gasket and pitting on the surface .. repeat this with the 1200 for the final finish

 

[Matteh]

and I just need to do that to the head... not the BE?

 

[bmh.01]

I was pretty sure you had too lol

Preparing the surface for reassembly is vitally important .... get yourself a good sanding block and some 600 and 1200 wet and dry .. carefully and evenly block off the whole head with 600 whilst applying plenty of light engine oil or wd40 for lubrication .. this will remove any final traces of gasket and pitting on the surface .. repeat this with the 1200 for the final finish

Wheres that from out of interest? Would've thought its a bit OTT for the application imo. I'd only go as far as using a stanley knife blade to scrape all the old liquid gasket off (but don't scratch the mating faces).

 

[mattjk]

Yeah it probably is lol! Its from a supra website

http://www.mkiiisupra.net/bbs/showthread.php?t=10960

Think its more for the pitting on the surfaces rather than getting bits of the old gasket off. Although I cant see W&D causing any harm???

You want to do both mating surfaces

 

[bmh.01]

Ah I see, don't worry about that then. Waste of time as they're shouldn't be any pitting in it really and its only an oil seal at the end of the day not like the airtight seal you need between the bottom end and the head.

 

[mattjk]

lol youd be pissed if it didnt seal.....

Nah hes right unless its pitted I wouldnt worry to much!

 

[ditz]

I was pretty sure you had too lol

Wheres that from out of interest? Would've thought its a bit OTT for the application imo. I'd only go as far as using a stanley knife blade to scrape all the old liquid gasket off (but don't scratch the mating faces).

i do that on every single head gasket i do, be it a crappy old k series or whatever.
mating surface prep is vital if you want the thing to last.

hydrualics will want evacuating - you've fitted new valves so the hydraulics will need squeezing out in a vice or they will hold the valves open (the only pump up they dont de adjust themselfs