Removing and refitting F4R head + valves

[ditz]

You dont want them squidy otherwise that means there is air in them.

when you squeeze them out they get air in, and you can push them in and out and then as soon as you run it it rattles for about a minute and they pump up.

done countless heads like that and not had problems
on the bucket lifters i just bang them on a flat table so the valve falls out then push the bearing so the oils removed and put it back together - they go squidgy after this but they always pump up again?

im no race engine builder i'll admit but i havn't ever had problems doing it that way

 

[Matteh]

good, that's how i've done them (and how the renault manual told me )

 

[BenR]

You dont want them squidy otherwise that means there is air in them.

when you squeeze them out they get air in, and you can push them in and out and then as soon as you run it it rattles for about a minute and they pump up.

done countless heads like that and not had problems
on the bucket lifters i just bang them on a flat table so the valve falls out then push the bearing so the oils removed and put it back together - they go squidgy after this but they always pump up again?

im no race engine builder i'll admit but i havn't ever had problems doing it that way

Thanks for the heads up lol.

My point was that if they are solid, then you dont have to release the pressure in them. If they are already empty, then again there is no need as they will pump up. They are hydraulic, you dont need to faff around with them.

 

[Matteh]

mine were solid

but figured it wouldnt do any harm to redo them all. Would they have been effected by replacing/lapping valves anyway?

 

[BenR]

no.

 

[Matteh]

incase anyone is interested... the engine is back together and timed up and tensioned etc...

I get between 165 and 185 compression (can't really screw the guage in properly as the plug holes are too deep :S)

so hope its done properly...


i've lost my spark/fuel somewhere though!

ah well, almost there

cheers for all your help guys :approve:

 

[mattjk]

Where did you get the locking tools from in the end? Good to hear shes almost sorted now though

 

[Matteh]

found a sealey set on ebay



just finished:

not bad for a noob eh!

 

[stan*]

incase anyone is interested... the engine is back together and timed up and tensioned etc...

I get between 165 and 185 compression (can't really screw the guage in properly as the plug holes are too deep :S)

so hope its done properly...


i've lost my spark/fuel somewhere though!

ah well, almost there

cheers for all your help guys :approve:

Those compression figures arent too bad...there will be a bit of variation innitially until the followers have taken up the lash. Try it again after its ran for a bit.

Well done mate btw! I bet your bouncing...

 

[Matteh]

just re-did the compression, each cylinder is on about 175 - that ok?

i do seem to have idle issues... in that it wont (unless i introduce an air leak)

but maybe thats due to having a 1.6 ICV

and stan, i was... until i heard it knock

introduced too big an air leak and when it started it up it just went straight to the limiter... and i could hear 'that knock'

 

[stan*]

ah....

big-end type knock??

Cant be heard untill say 3-4000 rpm when static, or under load when driving.

 

[ditz]

well done fella. well on the way now

as said is it more under load or does it when static?

would you call it more of a tap, or a deep knock.

just be careful as if it is a bottom end knock you dont want the piston coming up too far and knocking a valve

 

[stan*]

It only takes a couple of thou to cause a knock....there wont be any valve hitting piston action!!
If its a bottom end knock, thats enough of an issue on its own...

Get some vids up of it fella...

 

[mini-valver]

I knackered the bottom end on my Corsa. Turned out to be the little end of the rod and gudgeon pin on the piston after I stripped it down. It was VERY noticeable from 1500 rpm static and more so under load.

 

[Matteh]

think its a knock.. get it under load

my downpipe isnt quite lined up, so its blowing loads! makes it tricky to pinpoint noises


I'm also having issues occasionly selecting 1st

 

[Matteh]

coming soon: "Removing and refitting F4R bottom end and crank"

 

[mini-valver]

The knock I got was really metallic....
Try sealing the downpipe and see what happens. Have you got the alternator belt on?

 

[Matteh]

alternator is on and tightened

unload load (1st + 2nd) and overrun

 

[mini-valver]

Take the alternator belt off and try it. Could be the alternator fella....

 

[Matteh]

can't imagine an alternator making those noises :S

 

[mini-valver]

You'd be suprised dude.... Worth a shot before you take it all to bits!


IIRC this was the water damaged engine? Dan replaced the shells right?

 

[Matteh]

it was water damaged..but I only found that out after buying (I knew it was knocking, just not the cause)

Dan has photos of the whole bottom end apart so I assume he fitted new bearings, but who knows with him... his shoddy workmanship is so apparent in th engine...

funny how he is still lurking on CS (and even at the combe trackday I saw) and is usually not shy about posting (over 5000 posts) yet has remained very quiet about this one...

it seems he just doesnt know what the f**k he's doing

 

[mini-valver]

Gutted for you

Just try whipped the aux belt off, might aswell try!

 

[ditz]

im not sure if you could get away with this (i dont think so, maybe benR can clear this up) but at a long shot i've got a crank, all caps (and shells) with the rods

wondering if i were to keep the parts numbered what cyl they came from you could bolt the lot in and use it for a bit?

you can have that lot if it is possible, i've got the complete bottom end but 1 piston/lining is knackered.

 

[ditz]

oh, one way of seeing if you have play in bigend bearings.
whip the plenham off and get all the plugs out

get a long thin screwdriver and put it down a plug hole (so you can watch the position of the piston) then turn the crank over...

get the piston on its downward stroke ie its come up to top dead center and its now on its way back down. then try to push the screwdriver down.
if there is any play you will be able to push the piston down in its play and you will feel it

 

[Matteh]

i'll give that a go now ditz

 

[Matteh]

tried that.. i can't really feel anything

is an espace F4R BE the same as a clio?

 

[BenR]

no.

You will mostly hear an early BE knock as a rattle on the overrun. I.e rev the engine up a on the overrun it'll rattle more than when increasing revs.

Cant identify that specific noise.

Go set dans car on fire.

 

[Matteh]

I'll try and get a proper audio recording of it tomorrow then, see if we can properly diagnose it...

it's not a nice sound though


whats different about the espace BE? I thought just the heads were different

 

[sideways danny]

could be a damaged ring from the detonation maybe?

 

[Fred@BTM]

lower comp ratio on the espace i believe

 

[Matteh]

is that not due to the head?

 

[Matteh]

Go set dan on fire.

corrected


wonder what it's like to be only 19, yet hated by so many (some of whom might be willing to physically inflict it on him) - in that he's not even willing to post on a forum, in a shroud of debt and to be utterly incapable of the profession he states to be in (although he doesn't actually have any qualifications... at all).

he's really fucked it up big style! - should stick to driving buses I guess (until he gets yellow carded for driving like a t**t)


Must suck for poor Dan

(but enough about him)