was at a reno dealer today with the wifes father hes looking for a car change. i got my eye on a 60 plate yellow 200 for 14000 the dealer broke his neck to give me a test drive ive always wondered what there like so why not and i must say i wasnt that impressed yes a totally diff car compaired to my 182. it felt obviously that technolagy has moved on but the interior isnt that nice and i like that in a car and the main point was that it didnt feel any mors powerful than my 182.
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Golf 7R
Here we go again...
Crash tests and occupant safety have resulted in cars becoming bigger and heavier. Now emission restrictions will cause a reduction in engine capacity. Light weight high bhp mass produced cars a thing of the past ?????
how does a lotus elise manage to be so light and pass these occupant safety tests. dont believe everything you read. heavy and bigger doesnt make it safer.
Your average Elise buyer pays no interest in how many NCAP stars it's got. I would also suggest an Elise is by no means a mass produced car.
A Clio on the other hand......
172 ph1
And an Elise costs how much?
and how much would it cost if a company like renault made it instead of a struggling small car company?
172 ph1
I'm not sure bonded aluminium sections such as used by the Elise can be easily mass produced. Closest you get are Audi aluminium spaceframes, but that's in a higher price segment.
Other than that, you have to say that Mazda is making a good effort with the Mazda 2.
i wouldnt exactly call an elise rare, they are made in large numbers so it could be done.
my point about the elise was an arguement about the weight vs safety tests so light cars can be safe but the current trends have swayed to bigger heavier cars.
i think all cars should be made as light and with the least parts possible f**k all this esp, diff contol on each wheel s**t. but thats just me. lol
Lotus Elise at the height of production shipped 4500 cars per year worldwide. Total Renault Clio sales in the UK last year 8640. And the UK is nowhere near the top of the pile when it comes to Renault sales. So in real terms the Elise is a low volume car.
Lotus Elise has never been NCAP tested as there is no point. People who buy them are not interested in the result.
The masses who buy renault Clios are. Thats why it's plastered all over every brochure you see.
Yes the Elise does meet the current minimum safety standards to be driven on UK roads. If it were NCAP tested I'd be surprised if it even got one star.
The masses want ESP TC DSC ABS countless airbags etc etc as they believe it will stop them having a crash in the first place. Every volume manufacturer will make cars that appeal to the masses.
If you want light weight no frills high power to weight then buy a Caterham. But don't complain when your hot in summer, cold in winter and end up crippled after a 20mph impact with a pigeon.
do the masses want all those gadgets though? when renault first introduced the 172cup it out sold the full fat model by 2 to 1.did that have all those things? so take from that what you will.
The_Pirate
ClioSport Club Member
Golf R
Could not agree more having owned a GTi/VTS and a 172/182, its ashame really.
thanks im pleased someone else thinks so. lol
The_Pirate
ClioSport Club Member
Golf R
Its entirley true though, regulations have changed and as you know vehicle safety is at an all time (depressing) high.
They get heavier all the time, gone are the days of feeling a sense of danger on every road trip lol
They get heavier all the time, gone are the days of feeling a sense of danger on every road trip lol
But you are comparing two hot versions of the same car. The person who is looking at a 1*2 FF falls into the same category as the Elise buyer. Couldn't care how safe it is etc so will take the more focused cup for the better driving experience.
Unfortunately I would suggest the hot versions of any mass produced car make up a very small % of total sales for that particular model.
If Renault launched a fully stripped out 200 with no airbags or driver aids we, as Renault sport owners/enthusiasts, would welcome it with open arms. Joe public on the other hand wouldn't touch it with a stick and your insurance company would run a mile.
well what about the likes of the c1 and iq's etc there very basic and sell by the boat load. people dont care as much as you think about all the gadgets. its a case of some believing that we need these things.
Martin_172
ClioSport Club Member
lets not forget the clio has moved up a class, if you want the old skool thrills and rawness try a twingo RS
Kev is stuck in the past TBH. Like we'd all rather be driving around in modern day mass produced red top Novas with pipe cleaners for A-pillars, and the crash integrity of a tin of Coke.
Expecting cars to stay the same is silly. It's called progress. Things get more advanced and more reliable. You can still buy the stripped-out fun cars (such as an Elise) so if you want that, buy one. Otherwise, if you're like 99% of the rest of the world, buy a modern car. STFU and accept that things change. Jesus. Do you expect car manufacturers to ignore the interests of their business and produce cars just to please you? Old school FTW etc. f**k me, you're like 12!
Expecting cars to stay the same is silly. It's called progress. Things get more advanced and more reliable. You can still buy the stripped-out fun cars (such as an Elise) so if you want that, buy one. Otherwise, if you're like 99% of the rest of the world, buy a modern car. STFU and accept that things change. Jesus. Do you expect car manufacturers to ignore the interests of their business and produce cars just to please you? Old school FTW etc. f**k me, you're like 12!
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Martin_172
ClioSport Club Member
i like the rawness of a mk2 clio, screw driving one every day though! mk3 FTW!!
Nissan 350z
^ This. Basically things have moved on in the past 11yrs since the Mk2 172 was able to pass NCAP safety ratings. Comparing the Clio to the Elise is silly. If you notice the 172/200 etc are just enhanced versions of a mass produced hatchback, the Elise is designed to be the car it is from scratch. Because of this Renault design their hatchback to be safe etc, so when it comes to designing the enhanced version that is the template they have to work with.
The only way this will ever change is if RenaultSport are allowed to design their own cars from scratch, but expect costs to go through the roof due due to the additional R&D, tooling, production costs etc that are currently offset by selling in large volumes.
Golf 7R
Finally, some sense is being made.
This post should become a Sticky for the demented!
and how exactly is a 182 old school. lol and it also depends on your opinion of progress. the only progress renault made with the 200 was quality or so were told. how long do those recaros last before there down to the plastic inside. lol
i dont expect car manufacturers to make anything for me personally either, unlike a lot of folk on here i have a brain and can decide not to buy there cars if i dont like them not just because its the latest thing.
and yeah im 12 roy, ill just have to wait a few decades to be 50 like you and aspire to drive a volvo engined ford ; ).
Christopher
ClioSport Club Member
Z4M
You'll never win, Roy. Never.
172 ph1
Compared to the 172s I've had, the 197/200 is substantially more stable, and can be driven faster through fast corners. This is my observation after 300+ 'Ring laps.
My friend who works in a shop that prepares classic race cars, sat with me for 10 laps and then drove a standard 200 Cup at the trackday the next day, and noted how the 200 Cup, although no faster in a straight line, manages to have a lot less body roll than my car (which is on KW V2s and has the rear anti roll bar), and manages to take bumps even better. The greater stability of the 3rd generation Clio RS was also something noted by one of the test drivers of the R35 GTR.
Translated into laptimes the improvements of the 197/200 over the 172/182 yield roughly 10~15s over a full lap.
Some improvements aren't obvious at first.
This also brings me to another point, why has no one offered a thicker front anti roll bar for the 172/182?
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