PAS delete and MOT fail

So my 2003 172 turbo has been without power steering for 5-6 years.

That's great you might say; well not according to a recent MOT test. After several years without issues, took it to a new place for MOT as it was close to work. Much to my surprise the car failed due to defective power steering system that has been gone since at least 2019.

I thought it was stupid and funny at first as the car has no remnants of the power steering system. The tester was surprised it did not have power steering and I in turn was surpised they were qualified to work on cars. My Clio is using a manual rack from ePAS (would be shaft mounted) diesel clio. No lines, no reservoir, no pump, no backets left to even mount a pump. Certainly no warning lights on dash and the steering is in good shape otherwise.

I didn't realy take the situation seriously and just took it back to my usual MOT guy. Well now that the defect is logged we don't know if the car can pass without converting it back. He will get back to me on that. He did mention a sensor or connector to a sensor is disconnected from where it would be on a power steering rack. Its been years since I did the conversion, any idea where this sensor would be normaly?

Anyone ever come across this issue; failing MOT due to deleting their power steering? Searched the internet and other than leaking, failing pumps, or ghetto-rigged conversions nobody has mentioned any issues.

It is listed in the MOT tester guide defects page 117:

"Power steering malfunctioning/inoperative or otherwise defective. - Disconnected, inoperative or failure imminent (see note 6)
note 6: If power steering equipment is optional and has been removed with no adverse effect on the steering, no action must be taken."

i think the above might be a way out, but I don't think any clio Mk2 came without power steering. The diesels had electric assist so perhaps not.

There's a plug connection on the bit the column attaches to the rack so I'm guessing they think that's the sensor 🤷‍♂️

The power steering has been removed so they can't test for something that isn't there (that's my thinking anyways)

I have always been lead to believe if something isn't there it cannot fail. Bit like a rear wiper, if the blade is defective it is a fail but if the whole arm has been removed it is a pass...

Unfortunately I would say the Tester is correct on this one,

You could appeal the result but that could go two ways,
- The Dvsa examiner is fairly chilled and says because the tester can't prove that PAS was or was not optional, you get a pass with advisory notice

or

- The Dvsa examiner is keen and absolutely rips the cars modifications to pieces leaving you with a lot of work putting things to standard.

Nemesis-182 said:

I have always been lead to believe if something isn't there it cannot fail. Bit like a rear wiper, if the blade is defective it is a fail but if the whole arm has been removed it is a pass...

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Yes and no, if say it didn't have headlights, you couldn't say they're not there so you can't test them.

Never change MOT place if you have anything other than a bone stock car as you'll just find c***s

Coops Mk1 said:

Never change MOT place if you have anything other than a bone stock car as you'll just find c***s

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Mines looking to retire 😭

@Rob172T hope you get it sorted mate.

Owner of my go to garage retired in February. Took our X5 to another place, failed on power steering failure because 'it was heavy'.

Also an advisory on nails in two tyres.

As they're a tyre fitter and not a garage I booked it in for repairs at a garage, couldn't find anything wrong with the power steering, also couldn't find any nails in the tyres..

Waste of my time and money that was. 🙄

Some testers these days are c***s

I had one where he was gonna fail my Mrs old R56 Mini because he couldn't open the passenger door. I walked over to it and opened it instantly. f**king puff didn't have hand strength to pull the handle together

Try a more friendly mot tester, im sure you could have working pas then it gets removed 1min after the test. If not bang an epas column on it and move on.

Reminds me of presenting my extra van for an mot years ago at local garage, previously diesel and declared petrol/r5gtt carburettor engine at the time and had been mot'd a few times previously by the owner.

New tester who is keen says cant pass this as no cat. I quote 1984 engine engine so doesnt need one. Lad says its got a lambda sensor so shoud have one, lambda sensor was for my wideband afr gauge. Ten mins of arguing and the owner shouts "fcuking pass it". Never went back after that.

I'm a tester and I would say.
A. You as a tester don't know what at car came with new. You have to test it as you see it. I.e high level brake lights are not a failure as you don't need them. You don't know if it's wired in and you don't know if the car came with it.

B. They say the benefit of the doubt must be given to the vehicle presenter

Rob172T said:

It is listed in the MOT tester guide defects page 117:

"Power steering malfunctioning/inoperative or otherwise defective. - Disconnected, inoperative or failure imminent (see note 6)
note 6: If power steering equipment is optional and has been removed with no adverse effect on the steering, no action must be taken."

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Surely disconnected and completely f**king removed are two very different things 🤔

Find a place that will just pass it mate. I don’t see why it would be a big deal after having the fail on the record. The reason it failed does not represent reality. Also never go back to your usual guy, he is an idiot. You should have argued way more with him on the spot when it failed imo.

Update, so the 172 passed its MOT. It only passed due to the subjective nature of the MOT. My usual MOT guy brought up some points:

In years past they have passed it without the power steering. They knew I took it off as they asked me about this 4-5 years ago when I first took it to them. I thought they were just making small talk about the car then. My usual MOT guy flately stated that it should NOT pass as it had power steering from the factory. It is an issue now as it was noted on MOT by the other garage.

I retorted by saying that it was an option that was removed. This is not true as (correct if I am wrong) but no Mk2 Clio came withOUT any type of power steering. He seemed okay with the answer but told me inorder to be actual legal needs to have this sensor provision removed, plugged or blanked on the current rack. I'll look under there and 3d print something later this year.

He told me that in case of a accident "the garage always gets blamed." So that if the car ends up in a wreck and this gets invesigated the first thing the police inspector will see is that unplugged sensor on the curent manual rack.

Basically I naively took the car for MOT to another garage, they noted missing rack, my usual guy passed it (I did not press how he passed it with everything he was saying above) and in doing so did me a giant favor while eposing his shop to legal liability. This is large, well known and respected garage.

If the car didn't pass I would have kept going to differnet garages until it passed or appealed the MOT, paid for a VOSA "MOT" and hope they would somehow pass it. If the VOSA MOT failed I think the car would have been done, as I doubt any garage would pass the deleted power stering after that.

Glad that you got it sorted but I think here the important thing is that the car is not unsafe as is. It was converted to a manual rack all good. There is nothing unsafe about that. Some people are just really pedantic.
Next time remove the back seats, slap on a roll cage and steering wheel made of Lego and it will pass no problems.

The whole lecture about garage always gets blamed is b****cks really. Mot is only one day a year, and i bet they would say no problems on the day if investigated. Customer must have changed it after mot.

Brigsy said:

The whole lecture about garage always gets blamed is b****cks really. Mot is only one day a year, and i bet they would say no problems on the day if investigated. Customer must have changed it after mot.

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100% - I was told this once, "it passed but if anyone asks it was stock when it came to me", although if you binned it on the way back from the MOT station it may be hard to explain!!

I agree with you guys. I am just glad to be able to drive the thing again. Episode 2 will be next year, will he be okay wth the sensor location dealt with or will the gods demand power steering again?

I genuinely hate the MOT. I've always viewed it as an additonal tax in order to drive an older car (thats not old enough to be exempt). It's just something that grinds my gears every year as a guy thats always worked on his own stuff. I do enjoy the luxury of somebody examining the car and telling me what should be fixed, but detest having to park a perfectly running car for for say a check engine light being on or power steering deleted...