124,000 mile williams help needed

[king.stromba]

Right, ive just changed my CRX for a Williams (number 200). The condition of the car seems good for the price i paid About £2600 (depending on what value you attach to the REX). The service history is extensive. It has covered 124,000. For the first 102,000 it was owned by a pilot and very extensively serviced. Then a lady owner continued to service it and put 20,000 on it. The last owner serviced it once and had it for 3,000 miles (also had it RR at 159 BHP; no mods)

The main things i can find wrong are:

1. Rust coloured fluid in coolant expansion tank (its a brand new tank which was replaced after a recent leak). Im presuming it need draining and flushing???? The temp on the dash runs at halfway, but i cant remember what 0002 runs at so is this within normal levels?

2. There is a bit of play in the steering wheel when turning from straight ahead to the right (left is sharp). The guy did say that at the last MOT this was spotted but not failed as it wasnt too bad. This makes it necessary to make small corrections to the wheel when travelling in astraight line, as it seems a little loose.

3. A few dents and scuffs on the bodywork. Parking dint in tail gate (with cracked bumper), a few stone chips, parking dint in drivers door, small amount of rust on the drivers side rear arche, and a tiny bit od spidering between the drivers side arch and the tailgate. Also a small amount of rust under the bonnet where it looks like coolant has been spilt.

4. Handling not as sharp as 0002, so im assuming it may need some replacement suspension parts that have worn.

5. Usual oil leaks around the top of the engine

6. oil level was getting lowish and is a bit mucky (now been toped up and is awaiting change)

On the positive side the gear box feels tight, clutch seems good, the engine mounts seem good, the interior is mint, alloys are mint (fully refurbed).

The question is what do i do first? I have set an initial budget of £1000 to correct problems (i know someone is gonna say why didnt you just spend an extra 1000 and get a better car, please dont, its a simplistic argument, and spending more cash doesnt guarantee you a better car). I need help in prioritising what needs doing first. I will do any work i can myself and let experts do anything i cant cope with. I would rather get her mechanically sound before i attempt the body work, as i can put up with a few dents here and there, but i would like to stop the rust getting worse. The timing belt was done at 72,000.

Any help appreciated

 

[jon_r]

probably get the mechanical bits done first mate. Cos you would want to go repairing the bodywork only to find the suspension and steering bits were going to cost ££££s.

well done on getting another one!!

 

[Dean]

steering rack could be needed and this can be expenisive for the williams with wider track ask paul mitchell infinicar great guy!

if it was mine

id be getting the cam belt done asap along with a full service and fuel filter etc and get some coolant flush stuff and run it with a small bit of that for a bit then flush it

as it must be bad if the new tank has gone funny coloured

then all is done

if the dings arnt 2 bad you could get a dent person out maybee?

or if they are sort them your self and grind out all of the rust if its not 2 bad, then apply some rust protection and fill the area using fibre glass then a skim of filler get the car in for a blow over and get new williams grpahics from renualt then you should have an immac williams that runs well for a small price!

also consider getting the rocker and cam gaskets replaced which the cam belt is being done to stop the daft leaks as these are only cheap, i done this on my 102k valver sorted it out a treat no daft oil seaping out

 

[king.stromba]

How much would you budget for the cam belt realistically? What else cam be done at the same time that might need doing?

 

[Dean]

water pump i think?

im not overly sure mate

i rember a while back a mechanic lad posting he does cam belts on valvers and willys for 70 inc the belt and fitted

search fir him his in essex some places charge loads some not so much but sooner have the piece of mind!

 

[riplash]

For the cambelt, as a guide..

Torsion Tuning is about £240

BB Tuning is about £340

Both in Essex, sure other places (such as N.D. Hill) will be similarly priced.

 

[riplash]

That includes tensioner and idler too

 

[king.stromba]

Im gonna go with ND Hill if the prices are similar for the cam belt as he seems to be the man plus he lives near to my parents. Ive found a local man to do the basics. Ive had a few ppl look at the play in the wheel and it seems that their is some slight play in the offside track rod. Any idea if that is a big job?

 

[Smokey]

Quote: Originally posted by king.stromba on 13 December 2003


The main things i can find wrong are:

1. Rust coloured fluid in coolant expansion tank (its a brand new tank which was replaced after a recent leak). Im presuming it need draining and flushing???? The temp on the dash runs at halfway, but i cant remember what 0002 runs at so is this within normal levels?

Sounds like you need to flush your cooling system mate!!

If i was you id replace all the coolant hoses with samco ones as they get lined with rust!!

I flushed my coolant system last weekend and put a new expansion tank on, the coolant is now already a rusty brown sh*tty colour so have wasted about 4 hours and £15!!

So am gonna replace them with blue silicon hoses when i fit my willy engine!!

Also If your heating is sh*t, while you have drained your system id change the heater matrix as i bet its a bit clogged up after so many miles!!

 

[VoRN-182]

I dont think you need to spend anywhere near £1000 to put it right!

Do your neighbours think your weird having two identical cars?lol

 

[Smokey]

Quote: Originally posted by VoRN-182 on 13 December 2003


I dont think you need to spend anywhere near £1000 to put it right!

Do your neighbours think your weird having two identical cars?lol





Not weird just loaded lol

Am so jealous

 

[king.stromba]

LMAo, my neighbours dont think im weird having two identical cars, they think im weird because of the chocolate house i live in and the fairys i keep in my cotton wool shed.

 

[lofty]

the site where the guy rebuilt one at 210k+ is now on 280k without further problems, and when rebuilt there werent massive problems with the rings being the main thing, best thing would be to closely moniter oil consumption, expect 1ltr per 1000 miles but much worse then that and it would benefit from a rebuild but to be honest at 124k its still a pup!

The track rod end is very easy job but need the wheel alignment doing after at a tyre/exhaust place. The inner rods are also prone to wear but all easy stuff to swap and cheap too!

 

[u33db]

My valver is now on 130k and have had just about everything done so going on experience id say:

1. Cambelt first (ok its slightly early but if the last owner had it rolling roaded it may have been driven hard during that time - better safe than sorry)

2. Fix the steering problems as these get really annoying and could spoil your enjoyment as they can only get worse (as to what these are, start with the simply stuff, trackrod ends, balljoints etc. Best guess, itll prob be the column as it sounds like mine)

As for the temp problem, mine has been doing this since i got it so unless you sit in traffic a lot you could get away with it for long enough but a system flush may cure it - failing that rig up a manual fan switch until youve got the cash to have it sorted properly (new radiator, low temp switch/stat).

In all i think about 250 for doing the cambelt, 400 or so for steering bits n bobs. For both of these id recommend paul mitchell - knows his stuff and good for parts etc! If you ignore the temp thing, youve now got some cash to tidy the bodywork a little. In any case, itll be well worth it - 2 tidy williams! The envy is growing mate!

 

[VoRN-182]

I was quoted £120 to do the cambelt on my 16v!?!

 

[king.stromba]

Ok from what everyone has said and my own research this is my list so far:

Local man who has been recommended to me by another car enthusiast is going to pick up the car from my house and do the following:

1. Oil / filter / plugs / HT leads / dissicap / rotor arm / air filter / fuel filter / check gearbox oil / check battery / brake fluid level / power steering fluid / adjust hand brake (nornally id do alot of this myself but its too cold and wet and im busy at work)

2. Inspect the steering problem and replace worn suspension parts

3. Flush the coolant system and replace coolant

4. check speedometer cable as this wobbles a bit at low speeds

5. Replace catalytic converter nuts (so i can get em off easy when i decat her) and oil lug nuts to wheels as i suspect they will be rusty

Then as soon as i can get something sorted i think i am going to ask Nick Hill at Hill power to do the cam belt and give her an injector clean

After Christmas and when everything else is done ill try to get the body work sorted. Chips away will probably remove most of the dents and ill need to either get a new arch or get a body shop to remove the rust. The guy who owned her before me was quoted 350 notes for all the body work to be done.

Have i missed anything obvious?

I also have pics of her if anyone can get them up for me i could send em or tell me how to do it.

 

[VoRN-182]

All sounds pretty good!

Are you going to keep both of them then?

 

[Smokey]

E-mail me your pics king!! mailto:erranj@ntlworld.com">erranj@ntlworld.com

 

[JAY172]

1,steering will poss be the track arms or the column uj.

2,grease the speedo cable end(where it plugs to the instrument panel).

3 flush out and change the coolant.

4,oil leak poss rocker cover(you had to check and tighten the rocker cover bolts as part of the service on these engines).

5,check wishbone bushes etc for the handling.

6,water pump runs off the alternator belt so doesnt need changing unless it is leaking or has play in it.

7,complete cambelt kit about £90>100 + fitting(i normally charge about £65)

8,if you do the cambelt then change the alternator belt(about £15>20).

9,good luck!

 

[king.stromba]

yeah im going to keep them both. One for the week and one for sunday best.

 

[king.stromba]

Ok just had RAC out to look at my car. He said its probably not the bearing as it only has lateral movement in the drivers side wheel, no vertical movement. Also said it was safe to drive. Tyres are really worn on the side walls which was probably a combination of miss aligned wheels and low tyre pressures. Off to kwik fit now to get some new rubber and wheel alignment done. Hopefully this will help the handling. Just spoken to Nick Hill and hes going to do the cam belt for £180 plus VAT and the alternator belt for £12 at the same time. Nick also doing injector clean.

Bad bit is that RAC man said it might be the steering rack (£500). However Nick Hill said it might be he mounting rubbers so fingers crossed its the rubbers that need replacing. Still withing my £1000 budget to get this done anyway.

Good bit is the RAC man couldnt beleive it had done 124,000 miles. Though i was taking the piss with him.. Said it drove like a new car. He originally read the clock as 12,400 miles. The speedo cable is also worn and need replacing. Any idea how much to do this?

 

[Bubbles]

My valver has done 123k now.. aslong as theyve been looked after there amazing! a quiet and sound as a new car..

 

[lofty]

as stated elsewhere is very unlikley the rack is worn as there isnt really anything to wear, where as there are lots of perishrable items further out and your certainly sounds like the track rod end without doubt. no point getting the trackign done till its fitted as it will need doing again, but if you ask them nicely they might swap for you at the same time and freeing off the tracking is half the work.

also NEVER GO TO QUICK FIT FOR ANYTHING, they are ultra expensive with service to match

go independant and ring round for prices in advance.

 

[iPap]

Kwik Fit are great, they cant charge for labour so if they just get it on the ramp and repair it, you get it done free!!!

 

[king.stromba]

Two new michelin pilots and handling is transformed. Play in steering wheel is much reduced. Getting wheels aligned at 4 so well see if that completely cures handling. The old tyres were H and should have been V grade. Also the wear was bad on side wall and was likely last guy had been running 20 psi for a long time and wheels were badly kerbed so likely alignment is shot.

 

[lofty]

how much for the two tyres? (if you dont mind me asking)

 

[king.stromba]

£100 each

Alignment is fine. But ive got a broken suspension spring on the near side front. The end of the spring is curled up slightly. This might explain why the car pulls to the near side slightly. Any idea how much a new spring is (obviously ill have to do both). Been quoted £55 for fitting both sides, is this a rip off?

 

[Ben H]

Williams springs are hard to get hold of - about £100 for the pair from Renault I think.

 

[Alex M]

king.stromba I would put money on the play on off side steering arm is the inner joint on track control arm, and not the rod end itself (although this could be wron because of it) as it sound identical to the play I had on drivers side rod. To test put steering lock on and grab steering arm (not wheel) and tug it back and forward, sometimes hard to spot, but you should be able to tell if its inner joint. The arms are about £40 odd from reno (for a valver, but willy one will be same but slightly longer). Attached by a rethche type bolt that is designed to shear off on removal. This made me nervy as it puts a little bit of pressure on rack, and needs a good bit of force to remove it, but oonce off, new one is easy to put on. I am convinced this is what yours has (dealer told me it was common, and loads of people mistakingly change rack to fix). Worth checking before shelling out anyway!

 

[riplash]

Williams springs are more like £80 each Ben

 

[king.stromba]

riplash if your breaking a willy 1 do you have the tailgate and rear bumper? Cheers Alex M ill tell the little man who is looking at it on Thursday.

 

[lofty]

the track rods, track rod ends & ball joints can be bought from GSF for more sensible money, probably same item as Renault.

I had my springs replaced just before i bought it, no idea of price but its fairly common to have them fail.

 

[king.stromba]

Cant wait to get it sorted fed up of driving at 50 everywhere. People flash past you thinking ooooo just scalped a Williams mailto:W@nkers">W@nkers

 

[lofty]

going back to what you said earlier and your proably not to worried abouy the money from the sound of it but i wouldnt bother replacing the HT leads and rotor arm etc. Its electircal so by its nature dont replace it will it fails and AFAIK its not a service item. Just my opinion - they are fairly expensive the lot will costs over £100 from GSF and you would be better replacing perishable steering/suspension parts as there is a big labour saving to replacing everything when its all apart and then getting it tracked once. Just a thought! There is a maximum of 30seconds labour in doing the leads etc so you can always do them yourself if need be at a later date.