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no need....thats more for the F7 engines.....
your already past 10mm if i remember.......lol
solid lifters for the F4R arent the same as the valve train assembly is different to the F7 and then shimming would be a right pain in tha arse.....a REALLY big pain.
playing with cams and flowed heads will be dissapointing for you i think if your plannign on staying with the std throttle body and manifold.....they are near their peak already and would need considerable cleaning up.
hi Ben,
Ill let you know what piper reckon after weve done some measurements. Head/cams is only phase 2 before fitting TBs, so I will get max benefit from this work.
2 good options for TBs, just comparing prices etc. But pretty much a certainty now, although not for this summer season. so Ill be running the car on head/cams this summer and TBs wil prob go on this winter.
are you developing the cam with them?
UK cam companies are crap.....jsut plain crap, most of the stuff they throw out to us on teh mkt is junk but all we can use.
Just make sure they use a proper quality chillcast hollow blank...and developing a new master cam is EXPENSIVE. Dont expect them to get it right in one go, if they do.....tell them to keep working and not to be so god damn lazy....sorry, i jsut dont like Kent or Piper much......but its all we got eh.
the claims they make, the sh*t we put up with etc etc........and why in gods name cant they put a locating key in the cam they supply instead of hacing to use b*****d verniers.....its damn simple enough.......if theya re that good they willl know the timing it needs....b******s! i hate them!
sorry.......haha
Cheers Ben. My mistake for not having done my homework properly before buying the cup. The cars great but there are no mods available for the F4R and were at the bleeding edge of development. When I think a Hartge cooper S develops 217 bhp from £163bhp for a measly £1.6k it makes me furious. developing the same extra bhp in the cup is going to cost £5k+ and its probably feasible to lighten a cooper S below a ton.
Next car is defo running a ford/vauxhall lump. Oh well, I feel Im doing my bit for other unfortunate F4R owners. if my mods work Im sure therell be many takers on the forum...
well, i think your comming at it from the wrong angle...........
Firstly the F4R is new in the performance arena........so....itll take a while before the tuners see the mkt become large enough to become profitable. Secondly...its ONLY in the clio!
the cooper S has a charger......so upping boost is far easier than fiddling with the actual engine......not quite the same. Plus the JCS works upgrade was put into motion 3 yrs before the cooper S came out with official BMW backing......they got to test and play for 3 yrs will all sorts of financial assistance.
THe F4R will need to be independantly developed.....and the cost of development is HUGE.....were talking about 50-100K to make the same array for slap on parts you can get for the K series and XE.
its all relative.........its a new engine....the XE has been round for about 20 yrs!
Ben, have you heard of Dr. Schrick cams? If so, what do you think of them?
http://www.drschrick.de/english/index.phphttp://www.drschrick.de/english/index.php
Lars
Philip.........done me research.
The Std cam info for the F4R 730 is:
Lift
In: 10.998mm
Ex: 9.999mm
Timing
De-phased
Lobe 1
IO: -9 (ATDC)
IC: 45
EO: 41
EC: -4 (BTDC)
Lobe 2
IO: -5 (ATDC)
IC: 49
EO: 37
EC: -8 (BTDC)
Phased
Lobe 1
IO: 7
IC: 61
EO: 41
EC: -4 (BTDC)
Lobe 2
IO: 11
IC: 65
EO: 37
EC: -8 (BTDC)
Total duration
Inlet De-phased
Lobe 1: 216
Lobe 2: 224
Inlet Phased
Lobe 1: 248
Lobe 2: 256
Exhaust
Lobe 1: 217
Lobe 2: 209
So that means the VVT gains 32 deg on each cam lobe duration and there is 8 deg diff between lobe 1 and 2, so lobe 1 is the less wild profile, opening before and closing before lobe 2.
Exhaust is constant.
The Schrick cam makes lobe 1 & 2 identicle and is a fair bit wilder.
The Schrick cam info for the F4R 730 is:
Lift
In: 11.42mm
Ex: 11.42mm
Timing
De-phased
IO: 19
IC: 89
EO: 70
EC: 30
Phased
IO: 35
IC: 105
EO: 70
EC: 30
Total duration
Inlet De-phased
288
Inlet Phased
320
Exhaust
280
These are just what i worked out so might not be 100% correct, but the shrick cam looks pretty damn wild when phased!!!!!
Std ex cam is pretty boring..........
I have my rough sketches if you need them.
again, not sure if its 100% right...........but is should be, although its 3am here.
OMG, HOW STOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPID AM I!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I got the minus signs the wrong way round....sorry.
Revised version!
The Std cam info for the F4R 730 is:
Lift
In: 10.998mm
Ex: 9.999mm
Timing
De-phased
Lobe 1
IO: -7 (ATDC)
IC: 61 (ABDC)
EO: 41 (BBDC)
EC: 4 (ATDC)
Lobe 2
IO: -11 (ATDC)
IC: 65 (ABDC)
EO: 37 (BBDC)
EC: 8 (ATDC)
Phased
Lobe 1
IO: 9 (BTDC)
IC: 45 (ABDC)
EO: 41 (BBCD)
EC: 4 (ATDC)
Lobe 2
IO: 5 (BTDC)
IC: 49 (ABDC)
EO: 37 (BBDC)
EC: 8 (ATDC)
Total duration
Inlet
234
Exhaust
225
That makes more sense!!!!
the VVT retards the inlet cam 16 deg. The two inlet and exhaust lobes have a diff timing of 4 deg where lobe 2 on both is the more advanced (i.e. opens later) with less overlap.
The Schrick cam makes lobe 1 & 2 identicle and is a fair bit wilder.
The Schrick cam info for the F4R 730 is:
Lift
In: 11.42mm
Ex: 11.42mm
Timing
De-phased
IO: 19
IC: 89
EO: 70
EC: 30
Phased
IO: 35
IC: 73
EO: 70
EC: 30
Total duration
Inlet De-phased
288
Inlet Phased
288
Exhaust
280
When phased the same movement of 16 degrees is there.
Really sorry, feel a fool!!!!
Hey these Schrick cams are the ones I got!! but couldnt install them properly yet as my car is not out of service. BenR, any suggestions about the installation, I will look for a mechanic when the car is out but some additional help would be wonderful
On the other hand, what do you recon the gain will be after I fit these Schrick cams? They told me it would be 10-15HP but me not sure.. I also have superchipped ECU, u think I might get away with it without remapping it??
power gain...............no idea. If the rest of the engine is std, i wouldnt expect too much, saying that though, they are a fair bit wilder. I dunno if you have to disable VVT or not as they open quite early and you might have to check piston clearances.
In what way couldnt you install the properly?
remapping it would be to your best benefit with such a big change in profile and timing.
I couldnt install it properly as my rods melted before I could adjust the timing. When the car is out, Ill check the VVT sensor and see what happens when its disabled. I ordered a viper, got full supersprint exhaust (including de-cat), and supercipped ecu, and I should try the remap then. The problem with remapping is that superchips does not have custom mapping in Turkey, all are modem dealers... Maybe should send them the details of the cams for them to write a program for the ECu or something, you think they can do that??
they can and should.......if you get a decent shop doing the work for you, they will recommend it too.
The VVT actuator plug is ontop of the head near the cam pulleys....just take the plug off and VVT will be disabled.......alternatively, apply 12V to it to see how it runs with teh advanced setting all the time.
Melted rods..........you must of been busting it!
When the car is out, Ill see what I can do. Will try to disable VVT as well.
The rods melted at around 7850rpm while climbing up a hill on second gear, doing like 125kph, should be around 80mph. Might be because of fuel. We have 95 ron in Turkey and I use Wynns octane booster, but not sure if it works or not, it seems to work as the egine is more lively when I use it but dont think it increases ron to 98...
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