172 cup driveshafts V 172 shaft

[mikekean]

Does anyone know if there is any difference between 172 cup driveshafts and PH 2 172 driveshafts? Need to find out as ive fitted cup wishbones to my Williams and im not going to have much of a front bumper left if i leave them due to the extra castor from the cup wishbones. So want to see if i can fit regular 172 wishbones.

Cheers

Mike

 

[Bluebeard]

I've read your question 5 times now and its confusing me.

What do you want to know?

 

[Owen:s]

A172 cup and a ph2 172 have the same shafts, it's only 182 cups that have a wider track. And at that I think the bottom arms are the same regardless it's the hub that is diff and where it gains the extra width
I could be wrong?

 

[Danith]

A172 cup and a ph2 172 have the same shafts, it's only 182 cups that have a wider track. And at that I think the bottom arms are the same regardless it's the hub that is diff and where it gains the extra width
I could be wrong?

Slightly off topic, but how then does a 172 have a wider track than a normal 172? Is it just the offset of the turinis over 172 wheels? As I'm sure that one of the 'revisions' of the cup over the 172 was a wider track.

 

[Dan519]

A172 cup and a ph2 172 have the same shafts, it's only 182 cups that have a wider track. And at that I think the bottom arms are the same regardless it's the hub that is diff and where it gains the extra width
I could be wrong?

incorrect

ph1 172
ph2 172
172 Cup
182
182 Cup/Cup Pack


All different lengths and fitments

 

[mikekean]

I've read your question 5 times now and its confusing me.

What do you want to know?

What the difference is between cup and normal 172 driveshafts..

 

[mikekean]

incorrect

ph1 172
ph2 172
172 Cup
182
182 Cup/Cup Pack


All different lengths and fitments

Will 172 Cup shafts work with standard 172 wishbones then? Im pretty sure there is no track difference between the Cup and normal 172, the cup wishbones just have more castor bulit into them.

 

[Dan519]

it's the hubs that are different I believe (being honest, I've never measured up)

I know a normal 172 shaft won't work on a cup, they're too short and the shaft knocks from new

 

[mikekean]

Ive compared both sets of hubs at a glance and they look identical, weather they measure different i dont know. Looks like im going to have to let my bumper get a rapeing then haha.

 

[NorthloopCup]

it's the hubs that are different I believe (being honest, I've never measured up)

I know a normal 172 shaft won't work on a cup, they're too short and the shaft knocks from new

Yeah your correct dan. The wider track on the cup was done in the different offset of the turinis and also with the front hubs.

 

[mikekean]

Yeah your correct dan. The wider track on the cup was done in the different offset of the turinis and also with the front hubs.

The thing is my Williams doesnt look any wider with cup stuff on the front than one with just normal 172 parts, only thing that looks different is the castor. Maybe its the added castor the creates the need for a slightly longer shaft? as the distance from the hub to the box would effectively get longer..

 

[NorthloopCup]

The thing is my Williams doesnt look any wider with cup stuff on the front than one with just normal 172 parts, only thing that looks different is the castor. Maybe its the added castor the creates the need for a slightly longer shaft? as the distance from the hub to the box would effectively get longer..

The cup is 20mm wider per side than a normal 172 at the front. That was 10mm on the hubs and 10mm on the turinis. 10mm on the hubs is next to nothing though so I'd doubt it would stand out a massive amount. I can't personally see that the castor alone would require the longer shaft either. I've got a full set of cup shafts and hubs as spares if you need anything measuring.

 

[NorthloopCup]

Apologies, the cup is 20mm wider overall so that would only be 5mm on the hubs and 5mm in the difference in the offset with the turinis! Not 10mm like I put in the above post!!

 

[Durabang]

Apologies, the cup is 20mm wider overall so that would only be 5mm on the hubs and 5mm in the difference in the offset with the turinis! Not 10mm like I put in the above post!!

I have been searching past posts for this information so good to find this post - do you know if this is the same for a Phase 1 172 (i.e. the Ph1 172 would be an overall 20mm narrower than a 172 cup, 5mm per side on the track and 5mm per wheel) as i'm looking to buy my 1st clio and a bit torn between a Ph1 and a 172 cup, think I like the Ph1 as it has engine mods but wil eventually be turning it into a pure track car so am edging towards the 172 cup for its wider track / gearbox ratio's.

 

[p@blo]

Mike, one piece shafts from my Ph1 were the exact same length as the 172 Cup shafts I picked up. Also look like they'll fit with the uniball extenders and the Lag hubs if I ever get my dampers back. My 2 piece from the ph2 were a smidge shorter. Can't remember exact fig off the top of my head, but around 5mm springs to mind-had assumed it was to account for the deflection point being further outboard.

Lol @ the 172 hubs being different. :lolup:

 

[mikekean]

Nice thread revival lol.

So all the 1 piece 172 shafts are the same then, makes sense for only 5mm extra width per side on the suspension side. The uniballs are quite a bit wider again but would probably get away with it on standard shafts. A small spacer between the CV and Hub would probably be benificial though.

 

[Chip-mk1]

As with most things renault, bare in mind that they seem to just randomly change parts even on the same model, so its possible my findings dont apply to all of the same variants as I have looked into, but I believe it to be fairly accurate generally speaking:



Ive measured the following against each other:
172 ph1 hub
172 ph2 hub
172 ph2 cup hup
182 cup hub

They are all the same, the only difference is the steering arm and the bolt spacing on the 182 cub ones.


with regards to shaft length:
Ph1 = shortest
Ph2 172 / 172 cup / 182 = same length and same fitment both ends but the ph2 and the 182 have a centre bearing and the cup one does.


To answer your question, if you fit the reduced caster 172 arms from a ph1 or an early ph2 you should be fine, but what shafts are you on?
If you are on williams ones. no problem.
If you have done the 172 hubs too and are on ph1 shafts, then no problem
If you have done the 172 hubs too and are on ph2 shafts then if you run much camber you will bottom them out.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Mike, one piece shafts from my Ph1 were the exact same length as the 172 Cup shafts I picked up. Also look like they'll fit with the uniball extenders and the Lag hubs if I ever get my dampers back. My 2 piece from the ph2 were a smidge shorter. Can't remember exact fig off the top of my head, but around 5mm springs to mind-had assumed it was to account for the deflection point being further outboard.

Lol @ the 172 hubs being different. :lolup:

I found the 2 piece and cup ones to be roughly the same length but the ph1 to be noticeably shorter.

Trouble is with these cars having seemingly random bits at the factory, and having also been changed potentially since, its hard to know what you are actually comparing is really the original spec for that car.

 

[iLikeDuplo]

The thing is my Williams doesnt look any wider with cup stuff on the front than one with just normal 172 parts, only thing that looks different is the castor. Maybe its the added castor the creates the need for a slightly longer shaft? as the distance from the hub to the box would effectively get longer..

Just to add to the revival... why are you fitting 172 wishbones to a Williams? :S

 

[Chip-mk1]

Just to add to the revival... why are you fitting 172 wishbones to a Williams? :S

They give slightly more width, Ive got them on mine.

The wishbone options you have for a mk1 realistically are:
Valver ones - narrowest track, not much caster
williams ones - wider track not much caster
renault 19 16v ones - wider track, added caster
ph1 172 - even wider track, added caster
late ph2 172/cup - track as 172 but even more caster


The last ones give some serious clearance issues on the front bumper.


Best options are the R19 ones or the Ph1 172 ones IME

 

[iLikeDuplo]

They give slightly more width, Ive got them on mine.

The wishbone options you have for a mk1 realistically are:
Valver ones - narrowest track, not much caster
williams ones - wider track not much caster
renault 19 16v ones - wider track, added caster
ph1 172 - even wider track, added caster
late ph2 172/cup - track as 172 but even more caster


The last ones give some serious clearance issues on the front bumper.


Best options are the R19 ones or the Ph1 172 ones IME

Ah, that's interesting. I thought they already have the R19 ones as I know most of the front end came off an R19. TBH i've never thought the front end of mine has ever been lacking...

 

[Chip-mk1]

They seem to be the R19 ones but with the holes drilled slightly differently for change to less caster.
Not sure why they did that other than the wheels looking a bit too far forward maybe.

I put R19 arms on my last one and it worked well, but the mk1 I have now is on ph1 172 setup which is even better IMHO

 

[iLikeDuplo]

They seem to be the R19 ones but with the holes drilled slightly differently for change to less caster.
Not sure why they did that other than the wheels looking a bit too far forward maybe.

I put R19 arms on my last one and it worked well, but the mk1 I have now is on ph1 172 setup which is even better IMHO

I'm starting a full rebuild on mine so will defo have a look at this. Is the track visibly wider?

 

[sonny172cup]

In the OP's sig it says he has a 172 cup racer, their engines sit lower right (as well as gearbox) so what drive shafts do they use? If they run 172 cup drive shafts then they would stick out more due to them being lower...right/wrong?

 

[Chip-mk1]

Yes mate, my ph1 turbines sit probably only about 5mm off of flush with the arches on the ph1 172 setup.

 

[iLikeDuplo]

Ah, may well look @ it when the time comes. Looks pretty sound there mate... That a willy on a valver? Wing mirrors say valver...

 

[mikekean]

In the OP's sig it says he has a 172 cup racer, their engines sit lower right (as well as gearbox) so what drive shafts do they use? If they run 172 cup drive shafts then they would stick out more due to them being lower...right/wrong?

My cup racer uses Sadev driveshafts, completely different to the road car stuff. This thread was in relation to my Williams really as i want sure whether the Cup driveshafts were longer than normal.

Chip i had cup ones one my Williams and it proper ate the bumper lol. Fine now its rubbed through would think it was meant to be like that it cut it out very neatly.

 

[Chip-mk1]

Ah, may well look @ it when the time comes. Looks pretty sound there mate... That a willy on a valver? Wing mirrors say valver...

That is a valver shell, but they are absolutely identical anyway mate so makes no difference to how it sits.


Mike, yeah the tyre catching does a pretty good job of rubbing it down normally!