172 cup springs

[molydood]

Hi All,

I have just purchased a 2003 172 cup and it has the sportline springs fitted all round (about 10k miles ago according to service history)
I want to change these for standard cup springs for the following reasons:

-insurance quotes increase by almost £1000 if the springs are fitted (I worked this out by running different quotes through confused.com so only an estimation)
-the handling on the backroads seems a bit twitchy to me and skips over the bumps with less overall grip than I would expect from a stock car

I have owned a cup before a few years ago and the handling was superb - this one just doesnt seem quite as good to me, but it could be a case of rose tinted spectacles

Anyway, my question is, so I need to buy from Renault (£51 per corner) or can I get the following from Unipart:

UGCGRS472946 (set of fronts)
UGCGRS272914 (set of rears)

Total is £115 inc vat and delivery so a good saving

Are these aftermarket springs or are they the exact same ones? Are they cup specific or just 172 springs? I don’t think those are renault part numbers.
One last thing, Unipart seem to offer a heavy duty spring for rear - anybody kow the difference and what is best?

Thanks for any help and advice as I am going round in circles trying to make a decision and going out of my mind trying to get the information I need.

Martin

 

[Jonny1*2]

Become a member mate. Standard springs are always up for sale. FYI, if you're worried about suspension, either remove the springs, have them stripped, and get them recoated in black to look OEM. OR, get some prolines which look oem anyway. The chance of them noticing on an insurance inspection is 0-none. You can put them side by side and not tell the difference really, let alone in a dark arch.

 

[Emma.]

I'll have a set of cup springs for sale tomorrow if your interested. They've covered 65k. Let me know if your interested

 

[Martin_172]

if i was changing back to standard springs i wouldnt be touching anything other than genuine renault if your worried about the car being spot on.

 

[molydood]

Jonny, thanks. Reasons are twofold however - I also want it to handle properly (it's not just the insurance costs). cheers
Emma, a very tempting offer - but 65k seems a bit too many miles - thanks anyway (you can have my sportlines if you like!)
Martin, thanks, that's reassuring. I don't want to spend an extra £100 on Renault bits if they are the same as UNIPART ones, but if there is a difference then I will.

 

[molydood]

does anybody know what size swan neck spanner I need to release the top mount under the bonnet for front springs?
I dont want to buy the wrong size!

 

[Emma.]

You'll need a 21mm swan neck spanner. I've just bought some new Sportlines for mine. Thanks anyway.

 

[Fred@BTM]

any spring for an RS from a factor won't be "right"

172cup springs are dealer only

front 8200257954 - £42.50+vat EACH
rear 7700436850 - £42.50+vat EACH

they were cira £200 each at one stage!

 

[molydood]

Emma, thanks. Could I use a socket set instead? sorry for the questions. BTW it is horribly ironic that we are both doing the same process but in opposite directions
Fred, perfect information, exactly what I needed to know - many thanks. Is it best just to phone th elocal renault delaer? they quotes £51 a corner inc vat

 

[montana]

Emma, thanks. Could I use a socket set instead? sorry for the questions. BTW it is horribly ironic that we are both doing the same process but in opposite directions
Fred, perfect information, exactly what I needed to know - many thanks. Is it best just to phone th elocal renault delaer? they quotes £51 a corner inc vat

you can try a socket whilst the car is on the ground, chance are it wont budge (just twist the damper insert) therefore you will need the dog leg spanner to allow you to secure the thread with an allen key

 

[jack_kemp]

You're the first person I've seen on here that has said their sportlines are worse than the standard springs.... most people love them! Including me......

Are you sure it's springs that are the problem? Rear shocks going is quite common on these.....

 

[Emma.]

Emma, thanks. Could I use a socket set instead? sorry for the questions. BTW it is horribly ironic that we are both doing the same process but in opposite directions
Fred, perfect information, exactly what I needed to know - many thanks. Is it best just to phone th elocal renault delaer? they quotes £51 a corner inc vat

As said you could try a socket but it's probably seized solid like mine was. Tried to get mine undone after days of being soaked in penetrating fluid with no such luck so had to buy a 21mm swan neck spanner and try again. There's a very good guide from Fubar which is in the technical guides section but iirc you need to be a member to view. Trust me it's well worth the £12 you get a few goodies and the knowledge is endless.

 

[Soot1e]

I would say it's not the springs that are at fault, your shocks are probably cream crackered, eibachs ride much better than the OE's. As said before just repaint them in black.

 

[molydood]

I am not saying the handling is bad, just not as I remember from a few years ago when I had one last… it feels a bit like I am fighting the car a bit over the bumps when the power is down. Maybe I should get the tracking checked too
Is there an easy way of checking the shocks health? What is the failure mode is it something obvious or more subtle?

Sorry for all the questions.

Looks like I will become a member, just for the guide, good advice.

 

[Soot1e]

If the shocks have done 50k + miles then they are probably on their way out or if they are not oe's or decent upgrades then they could be give a dodgy ride. You can borrow my OE springs if you like to try them, my guess is you will soon put the Sportines back on. They are easy to change over, I'm only down the road if you want help. PM me.

 

[jack_kemp]

I replaced my rear shocks a short while ago. Had all of the problems you're describing, handling crap, crashy ride, unpredictable handling, tramlining massively. Completely solved it all.

 

[molydood]

picking up my new dealer springs tomorrow so it's too late for a OE spring trial Soot1e but appreciate the offer.
Wish I had started this thread a week earlier! I might get you to drive my car and see if I am just imagining it - you are only 30 mins away like you say

Interesting on the rear shocks Jack... I might have to look at those too if its still not perfect

 

[Clgale88]

Why dont you try brentacre insurance im paying £1000 fully comp and all my mods and any more mods i do to the car are all FREEE

 

[Soot1e]

You OK changing the springs yourself?

 

[molydood]

Will try brentacre cheers although it will be airbox and exhaust only once springs are done but worth a go
Soot1e, I have got some idea how to do it I think having read a little from google searching but I am pretty useless with a limited tool kit so I may come up against problems on the day. I really appreciate you asking.

 

[Emma.]

Will try brentacre cheers although it will be airbox and exhaust only once springs are done but worth a go
Soot1e, I have got some idea how to do it I think having read a little from google searching but I am pretty useless with a limited tool kit so I may come up against problems on the day. I really appreciate you asking.

Believe me. It's a bloody pain in the ass to do.

 

[molydood]

Well I got the rears done in about an hour today and managed to get one front done too. Those hub bolts are a right git to get out! (and back in)

 

[Soot1e]

Did you notice how much higher the car stands now?

 

[molydood]

yeah, it's noticeably higher now, I took a couple of photos before and after just for reference... it's maybe 50mm or so. I am hoping it will be more planted over the bumps with the extra travel. I am just about to go for a drive and see what it's like so fingers crossed

 

[jack_kemp]

I'm sorry to say, I think you'll be disappointed. The eibach's are a lot better than standard. I'd bet a good amount of money on it being your shocks.

Ride comfort has very little to do with the amount of travel the spring has (without going to extremes) eibach's are progressive, not linear, so they're ride quality is very good.

I don't really know why you would ask a question then ignore what people tell you.

 

[hilldawg172]

Should of stuck with the sportlines to be honest mate, standard cup springs arnt really that great, pretty poor infact. I found them extremely crashy and soon swapped mine for coilovers.

+1 on your shocks been shagged.

 

[molydood]

Shocks are fine. So is the car I am happy with the handling on b roads now.
Jack, I don't think you have read the first post.

 

[jack_kemp]

I did read the first post, in fact I have posted several times. I just can't see that anyone would think that standard springs are better than sportlines... they're just not.

As for the insurance thing, you should have just got them painted.
Anyway, too late now.

 

[molydood]

I don't know if standard springs are any better than the eibachs or not, and I don't want to get into that minefield of a discussion, but I was always going to change them anyway due to insurance.
As a secondary effect, I was hoping that they would also improve handling because it wasn't as I remember from years ago when I last had one, but that was probably rose tinted spectacles as I have had some pretty nice cars since then and it has probably skewed my perception somewhat. I found the cup springs pretty similar to eibach in the end, and changing tyre pressures has had the effect I wanted on the handling, not the springs. But the main point of the exercise was to allow me to insure it and that has now been achieved.

Sorted, and thanks for everybodies help getting to here.

P.S. as a side note, and at the risk of coming across slightly melodramatic, it might be interesting to explain why I am avoiding the 'painting the springs' option... aside from the fact it would be just as much effort if not more than changing the springs and selling on the eibachs, I just don't feel comfortable with the downstream possibilities of insurance fraud - why?.... well, about 2 years ago I went to pick up a hire car and as I was filling out the paperwork and doing deposits etc. I was idly chatting away to the guy (who happened to be the owner) and I noticed a few pictures of a smashed up ferarri on his desk. I asked him what the deal was and it turns out he had recently purchased the vehicle brand new and one of the first people to hire it had taken it on a track, got it a bit wrong, and basically totalled it. Not a leg to stand on of course, as the hire policy obviously states no track work is permitted, and the long and short of it is that the guy is now going to end up paying back £150k over the next 30 years or so - quite a financial set back no matter how well off you are. It was a quite a risk to take, although the probability of it going wrong was quite low, the potential impact is very high, and in his case the risk didn't pay off.

Now... I am not saying this is the same level of risk as painting your springs black and claiming they are standard, but it boils down to the same thing: *potentially* voiding an insurance policy - and it *could* go wrong. Yes it's unlikely, but its not probablilty that is important for me, it's a case of looking at worst case scenario (claims can easily be above 100k - a 5 car pile up on a wet and crowded M25 is not unusual, and it can happen to anybody). On claims that big, insurance companies don't just get their cheque book out and move on, they look for ways to avoid payment, and if they think your car looks a little low to the ground that might be a good place to start their checks. I don't want that in the back of my mind every time I pull off the driveway (and this is ignoring the possibility of injury/mortality claims - even bigger numbers!) - so is it worth the risk? for me, no.

probably laboured that point to death, but when I ran the back-to-back quotes a few days ago and found out that an exhaust and airbox added about £20 and springs added over £1000 it was an indiciator (to me at least) that the perception of risk by the insurance companies, for that particular modification, was significant. If they think its a big risk, then they probably have data to back that up, and more to the point would be pretty unhappy if they discovered something had been changed and not declared. At that point I knew I didn't want to brush the spring mods under the carpet.

I think people should be careful when taking advice on things like insurance policies. I like to have a balanced viewpoint, and for what it's worth, that is my side of of things.

cheers again for all the help

 

[Greeny.]

£1000 extra for springs that they wouldn't even notice? Sky insurance don't rape for you basic mods if you are near renewal time, ive not read through the whole thread