172 & cup

AMC44 · Jul 9, 2003

ok, can someone please explain the difference between a 172 and a 172 cup? is there a difference engine wise or just accessories?

telford_mike · Jul 9, 2003

Just equipment. The Cup is a 172 for poor people.

*ducks*

RobFenn · Jul 9, 2003

lol

mick_cup · Jul 9, 2003

Here we go......

AMC44 · Jul 9, 2003

ok i dont want to start a fight but which is the better one?

jon_r · Jul 9, 2003

Depends what your after luxury wise.

Basically....

172 comes with climate, plush seats etc etc.

Cup is lighter, slightly wider and only comes in blue or silver. You can get climate though.

telford_mike · Jul 9, 2003

Depends whether you want those accessories or not. Cheap is always better if you dont need the extras.

Dash · Jul 9, 2003

Quote: Originally posted by mick_cup on 09 July 2003

Here we go......

Dont you mean Oh Jesus Mother of God and the Devil and all the Saints that are Holy for Christs sake... Here we go ?

KDF · Jul 9, 2003

Basically the Cup is .1 of a second quicker to 60 than the 172..

I owning a 172 would get to 60mph 0.1 of a second slower but in my nice half leather/alcantara climate controled, heat reflective windscreened (with proper thickness glass) car.. and with it being night time, I will spot the deer on the road with my high power Xenon headlights before the Cup and be able to swerve round it using my ABS cause its raining.. whereas the cup would plough on straight into the deer, trying to swerve sideways his car starts to slide sideways into the deer, hi thinks thank god the airbag will save me, but alas he bought a cup not a 172, no side airbags..

there, that should stir it up a bit.

telford_mike · Jul 9, 2003

As far as I know the Cup lacks the following:

HID headlights

Leather / Alcantra Upholstery

Climate (though you can get it as an option on the Cup)

ABS (!!!!)

Traction Control & Cruise Control (on latest 172 models)

and various other bits (including spare wheel!) that dont matter.

On the plus side, the Cup comes in a nice blue colour and has nicer wheels.

Dash · Jul 9, 2003

Quote: Originally posted by telford_mike on 09 July 2003

On the plus side, the Cup comes in a nice blue colour and has nicer wheels.

Which 99% of owners will replace with 19s in a few months no doubt ?

telford_mike · Jul 9, 2003

Quote: Originally posted by dash on 09 July 2003

Quote: Originally posted by telford_mike on 09 July 2003

On the plus side, the Cup comes in a nice blue colour and has nicer wheels.

Click to expand...

Which 99% of owners will replace with 19s in a few months no doubt ?

Yes, just before filling the boot with 200kg of ICE

Griff · Jul 9, 2003

"I will spot the deer on the road with my high power Xenon headlights before the Cup and be able to swerve round it using my ABS cause its raining"

As the Cup is faster I would have been past the deer before it decided to walk into the road and thus infront of your 172!

Dash · Jul 9, 2003

And I would have time to run back down the road and leave a deer warning triangle out for both of you

AMC44 · Jul 9, 2003

ok, performance wise which is better/faster?

Griff · Jul 9, 2003

This must be a p!ss take. "Which is better?" At what exactly????

telford_mike · Jul 9, 2003

Cup is 85kg lighter (about 7%.) So its a smidge faster (0.1) to 60 - same top end. But theres no ABS, which is a pretty major limit of how hard you can push unless youre alone on the main runway at Heathrow airport, or a racing driver.

Jonesy · Jul 9, 2003

Does anyone know whether you can get abs as an axtra on the cup, becuase im defently getting a cup at the end of the year but dont want to die with the extra power, my abs has saved me on a number of occasions!!

telford_mike · Jul 9, 2003

Quote: Originally posted by Jonesy on 09 July 2003

Does anyone know whether you can get abs as an axtra on the cup, becuase im defently getting a cup at the end of the year but dont want to die with the extra power, my abs has saved me on a number of occasions!! <SCRIPT language=javascript>

No, unfortunately you cant, and it cant be fitted afterwards either.

RobFenn · Jul 9, 2003

The Cup feels quite a bit faster than the 172, like it has a different engine. It is more focused but that means it is less forgiving and can be less fun.

My opinions, of course.

-Rob

Rich-D · Jul 9, 2003

Quote: Originally posted by _KDF on 09 July 2003

Basically the Cup is .1 of a second quicker to 60 than the 172..

Not according to the Renault figures its not...

I make it 0.5secs difference!

The Cup was also 2.55secs a lap faster than a mk1 172 & 2.15secs a lap faster than a mk1 V6 when Evo did the Clio shoot-out a few months back, so the Cup is faster!

BikeMan · Jul 9, 2003

Why would you want ABS on a Cup? The whole point is that its track focused which gives it the appeal to me.

If you want ABS, leather seats, ABS etc buy a regular 172.

Ill take the Cup thanks - its closer to the appeal of my bike. I hate driver aids

Dash · Jul 9, 2003

Exactly . Speed in an empty tin can is what really counts. Not all this fancy pancy modern stuff.

Scudetto · Jul 9, 2003

please - when people mention the Cup has no ABS, the reaction is like telling them it has no brakes at all. There have been many high powered cars (in the past, granted) that had no ABS, and their drivers never made wee wee in their knickers when told it didnt have ABS.

So, is the oh my god no ABS factor because the Cup has dodgy brakes for normal driving, or because youre so used to driver aids that you couldnt dream of driving without them?

Me? ABS everytime, but if i had to go back to a car without them, I wouldnt have any sleepless nights (yes yes I know ABS is better in an emergency - but on a sunny day you dont take your wind cheater out just because it might rain, do you. Unless youre paranoid).

g

Tom · Jul 9, 2003

Hmm like every TVR

Scudetto · Jul 9, 2003

point being, boss?

g

Tom · Jul 9, 2003

Are TVRs and mclaren F1s sh*t cos they have no abs?

RobFenn · Jul 9, 2003

TVRs dont have ABS because they dont like the development costs, maclaren did it as it was supposed to be a focused driving car. All road cars should have ABS as it doesnt matter how good you are, its how good everyone else is on the road. However if the Cup was originally for homoglation you cant blame Renault, but it would of been nice for it to of been an option.

-Rob

Tom · Jul 9, 2003

is that the reason?

Nope!

Its not hard to fit ABS it works pretty much out of the box for a basic system.

TVR just dont like abs

Scudetto · Jul 9, 2003

I agree with all the points made; my question is... safety reasons aside for a moment, what is the big issue with the Cup not having ABS? Or are the complainers just being namby pamby girls who are too scared to drive with out it just in case something happens?

g

telford_mike · Jul 9, 2003

Quote: Originally posted by AMC44 on 09 July 2003

ok i dont want to start a fight but which is the better one?

So are you any the wiser? No. You pays your money and takes your choice.

Neither is better, it just depends on what you want.

RobFenn · Jul 9, 2003

They could say it was to save weight..but then ABS tends to weigh around 15kg..i duno..dont care

rt172 · Jul 9, 2003

Back to the original question, get a MK1 172. Remove spare wheel and you have a car with the same weight as the Cup but with most of the toys of a MK2 172. Then spend £200 on lowering springs and some camber adjustment bolts to sort the handling and youre laughing (as well as having just saved a few grand by getting a nearly new 2nd hand car).

Then proceed to laugh at all the sweaty Cup drivers as they crash into stuff due to not having ABS. Muahahahaha! (Ducks behind same cover as Telford Mike)

simonjones10 · Jul 9, 2003

I think the reason the cup has no ABS is to save money more than anything else. Keep the list price down.

RobFenn · Jul 9, 2003

The (blue) cup is the sexiest version of the 172 though..id buy it just for that.

RobFenn · Jul 9, 2003

Quote: Originally posted by simonjones10 on 09 July 2003

I think the reason the cup has no ABS is to save money more than anything else. Keep the list price down.

True and considering its only 12k maybe we should shutup and be grateful that at least one manufacturer isnt trying to rip us off

simonjones10 · Jul 9, 2003

Big up the cheap french tarts!

Tim-Grove · Jul 9, 2003

You load of puffs, who needs ABS. Admittedly my car has it but I don’t like it at all, I wish I could switch it off. I could stop quicker with out it in the wet no problem, it cuts in way to early.

simonjones10 · Jul 9, 2003

Your missing the point of ABS its not really they for when your really concentrating on your braking trying to stop quickly on purpose, its for when a kid runs out in the road in front of you and you havnt got time to think about modulating the pedal etc!

Rich-D · Jul 9, 2003

Main reasons I went for the Cup...

colour
alloys
nicer rear spoiler
performance
handling

Now Ive driven all variations of the 172 Clios (mk1, mk2 & Cup) and they DO all drive & perform differently.

I have a lot of experience with a mk1 172 and have done a few thousand road miles and 2 trackdays in one, so I know exactly what theyre like. The one thing that annoys me on track with the mk1 is the tendancy to understeer and the ABS kicks in waaaay too soon.

mk1 - longer gearing, understeers, not as much low grunt, but big kick at 5k rpm as it comes on cam!

mk2 - better gearing, more neutral handling, more low end grunt, less of a kick as it comes on cam.

Cup - same gearing as mk2, sharper handling, nice low end grunt, good kick (like a mk1) when it comes on cam.

So, coupled with the criteria I listed above and the fact that I can get a brand new one (& have) for £10,600 then it was a Cup for me!

Will be using that mk1 172 for a few days inbetween the Rallye going and the Cup arriving, so I will be giving it a good thrashing, as I will be taking it easy on the Cup at first.

172 & cup

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