172cup vs 306gti 6

[ilovewilly]

LOO in the 306 was more fun also.

When I give the Clio some beans I think its going to fall apart.

The GTi6 flat out feels planted and composed. The Cup over 100 feels like a bin lid in a gale. Saying that, it was probably due to a fluffed shock on one side!

 

[Deanoo172cup]

pmsl i couldnt of put it better myself

LOO in the 306 was more fun also.

When I give the Clio some beans I think its going to fall apart.

The GTi6 flat out feels planted and composed. The Cup over 100 feels like a bin lid in a gale. Saying that, it was probably due to a fluffed shock on one side!

 

[ilovewilly]

I figured this thread is a good excuse to post some pics up of my old 6

 

[titchster]

Standard 106 GTi won't run a 15 flat at Pod. Not unless it's a bloody strong one (which do exist), or running R888s or the like. I only managed a 14.9 and mine's completely stripped etc, and I didn't see any that were less than cammed run quicker times than that.

 

[Sir_Dave]

Standard 106 GTi won't run a 15 flat at Pod. Not unless it's a bloody strong one (which do exist), or running R888s or the like. I only managed a 14.9 and mine's completely stripped etc, and I didn't see any that were less than cammed run quicker times than that.

Mine did 15.02 or something completely standard, was a 2 prong one though

ilovewilly - i think i recognise that, where you on the c*nt forum, aka 306gti6.com?

 

[ilovewilly]

Yeah Dave I was on that forum. Dangti6 was my username.

 

[lovalle]

I owned a Xsara VTS for 8 years that is almost a 306gti with a different bodywork. It is virtualy he same chassis, same engine, same weight... everything was more or less the same but the gearchange, 5 gears in the Xsara, 6 in the peugeot but with shorter 1st, 2nd and 3rd in the Citroen. Now, i own a Clio RS200. No doubt the RS200 is a better car, faster and easier to drive.

I've also driven several times a friend's 172. All in all, eventhough the Xsara was very fun to drive, the 172 was faster on straight line and you can push harder in the curves as it is more predictable. The rear axle of the xsara was too lively, fun but difficult to control at the limit... In the other hand, driving position and engine note was miles ahead in the tthe two PSA cars...

 

[Gally]

Did I just read someone comparing a Xsara vts to a clio 200?

 

[Sir_Dave]

Did I just read someone comparing a Xsara vts to a clio 200?

Yup

200 for show
VTS for a pro

 

[Gally]

Thought as much.

Next week we'll take the new Lexus LFA and a 406 hdi estate on a drag strip.

 

[Sir_Dave]

Thought as much.

Next week we'll take the new Lexus LFA and a 406 hdi estate on a drag strip.

You upset me. The xsara Vts is a 306Gti6, one of the best hot hatches to ever grace this planet. I'd talk about it in the same sentence as the other great 'arch-gappers' tbh

 

[Gally]

Oh no no no you misunderstand, I know how great the 306 is.

He's still comparing 2 totally different cars imo!

Surely it's like comparing a 106 gti with a 197?

Arch gap > all!

 

[lovalle]

Why not comparing these cars? They all have a N/A 2 liter engine, torsion beam rear axle, stiff dumping, similar weights, close ratio gearboxes...

Xsara VTS, 306gti -> fun to drive
200 -> quick, much more grip, almost as fun
172 -> a bit quicker in straight line than the vts, easier to drive

Perhaps I'm not a pro...

 

[Budgie]

Clios don't have a torsion bar.

 

[lovalle]

Clios have coil springs and 306gti and xsara have torsion bars, ok, but the rear axle is pretty much the same, a torsion axle, isn't it?

Clios don't have a torsion bar.

 

[realnumber 1]

Oh no no no you misunderstand, I know how great the 306 is.

He's still comparing 2 totally different cars imo!

Surely it's like comparing a 106 gti with a 197?

Arch gap > all!

Have you read the thread title?
Although the the VTS is very much like the gti6 it was actually the older ZX's that were almost 100% identical. Both were very under rated yet as good as the gti6. Infact I would have a good ZX 16v over a gti6.

 

[Sir_Dave]

Have you read the thread little?
Although the the VTS is very much like the gti6 it was actually the older ZX's that were almost 100% identical. Both were very under rated yet as good as the gti6. Infact I would have a good ZX 16v over a gti6.

Actually,

ZX = Ph1 306
Xsara = Ph2 306

So the ZX 16v was actually the same car as the 306 S16, as they both use the XU10 J4D/Z lump & create 155bhp.... The xsara Vts/306 Gti6 used the XU10 J4RS & produce 167bhp. Unless of course you are talking about the very rare Citroën ZX Dakar 2.0 16v which also used the XU10 J4RS lump.

Geek mode off.

 

[realnumber 1]

Actually,

ZX = Ph1 306
Xsara = Ph2 306

So the ZX 16v was actually the same car as the 306 S16, as they both use the XU10 J4D/Z lump & create 155bhp.... The xsara Vts/306 Gti6 used the XU10 J4RS & produce 167bhp. Unless of course you are talking about the very rare Citroën ZX Dakar 2.0 16v which also used the XU10 J4RS lump.

Ah, but it was the volcane that was 155 bhp. The 16v sometimes known as the Paris Dakar had the 167 bhp lump in it.

 

[craig david]

liken clios are not good cars mon the vags

 

[ilovewilly]

All arguments aside, the GTi6 is better than the 1*2

 

[realnumber 1]

Ah, but it was the volcane that was 155 bhp. The 16v sometimes known as the Paris Dakar had the 167 bhp lump in it.

Sorry miss read your post with trying to work while using my phone for cs lol.

 

[Ollie82.]

Actually,

ZX = Ph1 306
Xsara = Ph2 306

So the ZX 16v was actually the same car as the 306 S16, as they both use the XU10 J4D/Z lump & create 155bhp.... The xsara Vts/306 Gti6 used the XU10 J4RS & produce 167bhp. Unless of course you are talking about the very rare Citroën ZX Dakar 2.0 16v which also used the XU10 J4RS lump.

Geek mode off.

Thats just plain unhealthy David.....seriously.

 

[Gally]

Have you read the thread title?
Although the the VTS is very much like the gti6 it was actually the older ZX's that were almost 100% identical. Both were very under rated yet as good as the gti6. Infact I would have a good ZX 16v over a gti6.

Aww so should we compare the 172cup to a brand new clio 200?

They are both different cars. Comparing a 172cup to a 306gti6 is fine.

Comparing a clio200 to a xsara vts imo is stupid.

 

[realnumber 1]

Aww so should we compare the 172cup to a brand new clio 200?

They are both different cars. Comparing a 172cup to a 306gti6 is fine.

Comparing a clio200 to a xsara vts imo is stupid.

I really don't see why you shouldn't compare any of those. All hot hatches with similar performance. Just old against new. People often compare Williams to 1x2s, 200 and the like. It's just one is older and not as safe....

 

[Gally]

That's like saying the 197 isn't as fun as a 106gti.

They are both hot hatches right?

Obviously most newer cars don't have the interaction most olders cars have.

 

[realnumber 1]

Both good hot hatches so why not compare the pros and cons of each. Each have there merits. Maybe I'm just showing my old age....

 

[Sir_Dave]

Thats just plain unhealthy David.....seriously.

Hai x

 

[Gally]

Pros and Cons are fine but most people compare them on stupid things imo.

10 years is a very long time in the car industry imo. Especially these days where things are moving at such a rate.

 

[realnumber 1]

Things have always moved as fast in my experience. But new doesn't always mean better. Look at recent pugs to old. Some people still made fine chassis and suspension 10-20+ years ago without all the computer tech we have now.

Sir Dave, your right with what you said. Just a bit of my alzheimers kicking in!

 

[lovalle]

obviously newer cars are more isolated from what happens in the tarmac, ok, but i was talking about the oversteer nature of these old PSA hatches. That brings you a lot of fun, but also makes you feel less confident in fast corners so your speed drops.

That's like saying the 197 isn't as fun as a 106gti.

They are both hot hatches right?

Obviously most newer cars don't have the interaction most olders cars have.

 

[BoroGTI]

Mine did 15.02 or something completely standard, was a 2 prong one though

ilovewilly - i think i recognise that, where you on the c*nt forum, aka 306gti6.com?

Ah! Ha! that feckin 2 pronged argument haunts me! still hilarious though:approve:

 

[mr bognor]

Thats what helped me sell the car the 2 pronged head lol

Ah! Ha! that feckin 2 pronged argument haunts me! still hilarious though:approve:

 

[Sir_Dave]

Thats what helped me sell the car the 2 pronged head lol

FLOL. Not the complete lack of abs then

 

[Soot1e]

The 172 cup has more BHP per ton than the GTI 6.

 

[DMS]

So does an ordinary 172, but what people fail to realise is that power to weight ratio isn't the be all and end all.
Gearing, wheel size, aerodynamics, power delivery, the driver etc all make a big difference too.

 

[Soot1e]

So does an ordinary 172, but what people fail to realise is that power to weight ratio isn't the be all and end all.
Gearing, wheel size, aerodynamics, power delivery, the driver etc all make a big difference too.

Understand what you mean, but the Pug and aerodynamics don't seem to go together

 

[titchster]

They're not exactly that bad. A 106 has a drag coefficient of 0.34, a mk2 Clio? 0.35... Not exactly worlds apart.

Although, that said, a 306 is 0.32, so that's a bit of a bigger gap, and they are the two cars we're comparing, I suppose.

 

[Sir_Dave]

All these posts, & maybe only 3 or 4 of us in here have actually owned both ... so can actually comment on the differences ...

 

[ilovewilly]

The 306 is more likely to kill a pedestrian than a 1*2.

 

[Short Norman]

All these posts, & maybe only 3 or 4 of us in here have actually owned both ... so can actually comment on the differences ...

I've had both, and think that the GTI-6 is better than the 172 in the twisty's, but my 172 feels quicker than what my GTI-6 did (well above 5000rpm anyway).

I prefer the more modern feel of the 172, it's certainly put together better than my GTI-6...oh and so far every thing works in the 172 - not so in the pug..

If I was going to get another 306 it would have to be a Rallye, better image and less stuff to go wrong...